Jeffries vs Foreman

[BKM-]

"I will never take a chance on losing my title to a black man,when there are no more white challengers to fight,I will retire." Jim Jeffries.

"I will not defend my title against a black man".Jim Jeffries.

" Johnson may be good,he may be as good as the whole Japanese Navy,but I will not fight him,"Jim Jeffries.

"The Heavyweight title is too prestigious to risk it falling into the hands of a member of the colored race".Jim Jeffries.

"If Johnson should defeat Hart,and I think he will, I will not fight him,if Hart should win,and there is enough public demand for it.I will give him a chance." Jim Jeffries.

"Will you give Johnson a title chance?" " I am not into fighting skunks"Jim Jeffries.

Thanks for the quotes.

Do you happen to have some quotes of white fighters of that era who did not discriminate against colored opponents and fought everybody?

[Bronson66]

Thanks for the quotes.

Do you happen to have some quotes of white fighters of that era who did not discriminate against colored opponents and fought everybody?

Choynski fought;
Johnson
Godfrey
Childs

Maher fought;
Jackson
Butler
Godfrey
Craig
Harris
Clark
Klon***e
Butler

I don't have any quotes from them regarding black opponents,but then they weren't heavyweight champions refusing to fight black challengers.So perhaps their thoughts went unrecorded?

[The D3vil]

This fight could either go 1 of 2 ways.

Either Foreman knocks Jeffries out in 2 or 3 rounds

Or

Jeffries tires Foreman out & stops him in 8 or 9

Reading about Jeffries shows me that he was a much better athlete than we may have been led to believe.

He ran the 100yd dash in 10 seconds. For context, the current "world's fastest man" Noah Lyles ran it at 9.79 at the Olympics.

He could high-jump over 6ft

He was a solid 6'2" & 225 of solid muscle.

Foreman was 6'3" & 225 when he was young, so it wouldn't be as big of a size disadvantage as we think.

Foreman also moved a lot better when he was young than we remember.

He was no Ali, but he wasn't completely a mummy, either

But he had really bad stamina when he was young.

I'm not saying Jeffries gets him, but I think we make a mistake when we just assume that old dudes can't compete in today's game.

We forget that everything has been done to make our lives easier than theirs was.

Everything was harder for them. Training, traveling, and recovery was all much more difficult in their time.

Plus, guys fought more often

Officially, I'm going with Foreman, but I'm not 100% with that.

[Biledriver]

How old was Foreman when he went 12 rds with Champion Holyfield? Twelve rounds without once seeking the benefit of his stool.
Foreman's problem was not a lack of stamina,it was a lack of pacing.Something he addressed and corrected in his comeback.
George's defence wasn't too great,true, but he did not finish his career with a three times broken nose,a cauliflower ear, and scar tissue above and below both eyes,and he had 81 fights compared to Jeffries 24.
Foreman was also being hit by real 200lbs plus heavyweights,not super middles and light heavies.
Jeffries had 27lbs on Sharkey and fought a re-active fight, waiting for the Sailor to come in and countering him,he wasn't attacking and making the fight ,as George generally did.
Jeffries stamina and durability was mainly tested against smaller, older men.

To be fair, I think most of Jeffries battle scars were inflicted by Fitzsimmons

[Bronson66]

To be fair, I think most of Jeffries battle scars were inflicted by Fitzsimmons

After their 2nd fight, 2 years retired nearly 40 years old Fitz was described as hitting Jeffries when and where he wanted.
Newspapers said Jeffries won because.
1.He was so much bigger
2.He was 12 years the younger man.
3.Fitz's hands went on him.
My point is ,where was this good defence then?

[Bronson66]

This fight could either go 1 of 2 ways.

Either Foreman knocks Jeffries out in 2 or 3 rounds

Or

Jeffries tires Foreman out & stops him in 8 or 9

Reading about Jeffries shows me that he was a much better athlete than we may have been led to believe.

He ran the 100yd dash in 10 seconds. For context, the current "world's fastest man" Noah Lyles ran it at 9.79 at the Olympics.

He could high-jump over 6ft

He was a solid 6'2" & 225 of solid muscle.

Foreman was 6'3" & 225 when he was young, so it wouldn't be as big of a size disadvantage as we think.

Foreman also moved a lot better when he was young than we remember.

He was no Ali, but he wasn't completely a mummy, either

But he had really bad stamina when he was young.

I'm not saying Jeffries gets him, but I think we make a mistake when we just assume that old dudes can't compete in today's game.

We forget that everything has been done to make our lives easier than theirs was.

Everything was harder for them. Training, traveling, and recovery was all much more difficult in their time.

Plus, guys fought more often

Officially, I'm going with Foreman, but I'm not 100% with that.

Jeffries was measured in a Doctors surgery at an even 6 feet,his best weight was between approx 210 and 218lbs.

You are saying Foreman had bad stamina when he was young?

Do you think it improved when he was 20 years older and 25 lbs heavier?

Or do you entertain the possibility that he had learned to pace himself ,and not go for the ko from the get go?

Lyles was running the 100metres not 100yds.

Walter Halben Butler is credited with being the 1st man to run the 100yds dash in10 seconds.

There is a lot of hyperbole around Jeffries feats of strength,including running miles with a deer on his shoulders and tossing 500lbs bales into hay wagons.

Jack Dempsey was timed at11.2 for the 100yds dash a very respectable time for a boxer.

Jeffries time was never verified.

Guys fought more often?

Jeffries had a total of 24 fights.
Foreman 81.

[QueensburyRules]

They couldn't fight before they did because Jeffries wouldn't risk his title. He said so himself. Facts.

- - Jeff just aped the typical color line then. Jeff did risk his title and reputation when he rematched black fighter

220

180

21 2 6

You know, the same Griffin who whooped JJ.

[JAB5239]

- - Jeff just aped the typical color line then. Jeff did risk his title and reputation when he rematched black fighter

220

180

21 2 6

You know, the same Griffin who whooped JJ.

Lmao.....if he could fight Griffin why not Johndon? The answer is because he didn't want to take a chance to losing the title to a black man so he ducked him instead. When he finally did fight him he admitted later that he NEVER could have beaten Johnson.

[billeau2]

** Put George in those little 4 oz gloves and you'd have murder on your hands.

Don't kid yourself. Jeff was a major natural talent and took on all the black and white contenders of his day from his first day at pro, but he had a very primative style that don't tranlate into the modern era. He was beat up by Corbett and Fitz in their first fights before scoring a late KO.

Peralta was a very underrated, very crafty fighter. 99-9-9 and was tough on heavy contenders like Lyle even in his last fights. I love Jeff who is a very underrated fighter, but stylistically, he'd be whacked out by Foreman in 4 rounds. It'd be a great brawl while it lasted as Jeff would give it his all, but he just never showed he could handle a really big guy and Foreman always blasted out the big guys.

As hard as it is to believe... Gloves primarily protect the hands. You could not fight in the modern way with such gloves because you would break your hand. There is a reason gloves got bigger after Dempsey kind of brought on the era and technique for hitting with your entire body weight, swinging the arm like a kind of hammer.

hard fight to predict at any rate... Just so many possibilities.

[billeau2]

Fact is Jeffries didn't mistakenly lose weight as you claimed. Not that it would have mattered as even Jeff himself said at no time could he have beaten Johnson. Am I mistaken?

The nuanced truth, if one looks carefully at the circumstances surrounding the issue is something like this: Jack London was part of this whole mentality that the Wh ite European man had a manifest destiny due to his superior racial make up (whatever that is/was) and was extremely hostile to JJ proving him wrong through empirical proof lol. Jeffries was a simple fellow, just a big incredibly athletically gifted individual from a farming community. Naturally this enabled London to manipulate Jeffries and pull him into what was for London, a big stakes game of rac ial "footsie."

How do I say this? I would bet a good bit Jeffries had never even seen a Bl ack Person before reaching adulthood. He had virtually no understanding, or experience regarding what was at the time, still quite a minority in the rural midwest. He certainly had no opinion about what rac ial attributes... How could he? they were a pseudo science.

naturally as a humble individual with a simple understanding of power, the need to be honest, when Jeffries opined on his own he had no problem declaring how good JJ was.