Jeffries vs Foreman

[BKM-]

I'm fascinated by the grappling aspect of this matchup. Looking at old Jeffries photos, it kind of looks like he had cauliflower ears indicating a grappling background which wouldn't have been that unusual back in his days.

One way to beat Foreman would be to take control as a stronger man and push him back, an almost impossible task. No opponent of his ever did that, only an old Sonny Liston did when Foreman was young and they were sparring. And Liston was an absolute freak of nature himself.

So I think that even though these late 19th century-early 20th century HW's are more primitive, they may actually be a tougher matchup for Big George. He may be stronger than Johnson and Jeffries, maybe, but he cannot bully them in the clinch. That I am quite confident in.

[Bronson66]

I agree it's a good fight. I also agree that if Jeffries makes it past 5 it's favors him. But getting hit by a 170lb fitzsimmons and a 215lb Foreman in 4oz gloves are two vastly different thing. Jeff never fought anyone near as strong as Foreman. He was manhandled by Johnson in the clinch. I know he was out for 6 years, but that strength doesn't leave like your reflexes do. In a fantasy fights no one can say for sure the outcome, but I'd still favor George. Jeffries is game though, so I wouldn't count him out.

Jeffries fought and beat 3 men 200lbs or more.
Jack Munroe7-2-0

Gus Ruhlin 27-6-3

Van Buskirk 4-2-1
His other 200lbs plus opponent was Johnson, who beat the **** out of him.
Jeffries had weight advantages in 20 of his 24 fights.
Some of those weight differentials were ridiculous.
Against the following
Choynski 52lbs!

Fitzsimmons 47 & 39 lbs!

Jackson 23lbs

Everett 26lbs

Baker 26lbs

Griffin 40lbs!

Corbett 30&27lbs!

Finnegan 60lbs!

Sharkey 27&20lbs

Armstrong 25lbs

Everett 26lbs

In 81 fights Foreman only 3 times faced men under 190lbs.
In 24 fights14 of Jeffries 24 opponents were under 190lbs and 4 others may have been.

[QueensburyRules]

Jeff ducked jack saying he would never defend against a colored man. And Jeffries had no authority to "sanction" anything.

- - Jeff was ready at his end to fight JJ as anyone who follows this period knows. When Jeff was active prime, Johnson was shyte but starting to make inroads until Hart exposed him in the most public way as a cowardly slacker.

Nobody would give two cents about JJ except U half brain cell if Jeff who was considered invincible didn't come out of six years retirement as a shell of a fighter having to drop 100lbs whilst living on a diet that would starve a sparrow.

[JAB5239]

- - Jeff was ready at his end to fight JJ as anyone who follows this period knows. When Jeff was active prime, Johnson was shyte but starting to make inroads until Hart exposed him in the most public way as a cowardly slacker.

Nobody would give two cents about JJ except U half brain cell if Jeff who was considered invincible didn't come out of six years retirement as a shell of a fighter having to drop 100lbs whilst living on a diet that would starve a sparrow.

All this rubbish already debunked. And to say no one would care about the first black heavyweight champion if not for Jeffries is ludicrous.

[Biledriver]

All this rubbish already debunked. And to say no one would care about the first black heavyweight champion if not for Jeffries is ludicrous.

The test pattern just shifted to the same morning cartoons you've seen a million times

[JAB5239]

The test pattern just shifted to the same morning cartoons you've seen a million times

[Bronson66]

- - Jeff was ready at his end to fight JJ as anyone who follows this period knows. When Jeff was active prime, Johnson was shyte but starting to make inroads until Hart exposed him in the most public way as a cowardly slacker.

Nobody would give two cents about JJ except U half brain cell if Jeff who was considered invincible didn't come out of six years retirement as a shell of a fighter having to drop 100lbs whilst living on a diet that would starve a sparrow.

"I will never take a chance on losing my title to a black man,when there are no more white challengers to fight,I will retire." Jim Jeffries.

"I will not defend my title against a black man".Jim Jeffries.

" Johnson may be good,he may be as good as the whole Japanese Navy,but I will not fight him,"Jim Jeffries.

"The Heavyweight title is too prestigious to risk it falling into the hands of a member of the colored race".Jim Jeffries.

"If Johnson should defeat Hart,and I think he will, I will not fight him,if Hart should win,and there is enough public demand for it.I will give him a chance." Jim Jeffries.

"Will you give Johnson a title chance?" " I am not into fighting skunks"Jim Jeffries.

[Bronson66]

Well shoot. I'll go ahead and put my synopsis down.

Personally, surprisingly, I'd favour big Jeff. My main reason being the stamina issue and he was a better technical boxer from all accounts. He started off sparring with Jim Corbett, who was a fantastic technician and picked up some tricks. Now, while not master boxer, he seems to have been more polished than Foreman. Also, he had a good chin, and as mentioned before, good stamina as evidencenced by he 20 round war with Tom Sharkey under the searing heat of artificial lighting at Coney Island.

Geroge, in his prime, went the 10 round distance against Gregorio Peralta; but Peralta was primarily a light-heavyeight who had moved up for a pay day. George dominated many of his fights through sheer physical strengh; he would not have this advantage over Jeffries. He wouldn't be able to push Jeff off and might be pushed back himself, which could throw him off his game.

Unlike Foreman, Jim was not a fast starter most the time and would wait for the right moment to lower the boom. Givin George's average defense and wide-open causeways due to his looping and winging punches, all hell might break loose pretty early; but, ultimately I see Jeffries winning by an 11th round stoppage after a steady pouding by both men, George would be more likely to wear out. It could end earlier; but I give George credit for being tough as nails himself...and Jeffries wasn't exactly a barnstormer.

How old was Foreman when he went 12 rds with Champion Holyfield? Twelve rounds without once seeking the benefit of his stool.
Foreman's problem was not a lack of stamina,it was a lack of pacing.Something he addressed and corrected in his comeback.
George's defence wasn't too great,true, but he did not finish his career with a three times broken nose,a cauliflower ear, and scar tissue above and below both eyes,and he had 81 fights compared to Jeffries 24.
Foreman was also being hit by real 200lbs plus heavyweights,not super middles and light heavies.
Jeffries had 27lbs on Sharkey and fought a re-active fight, waiting for the Sailor to come in and countering him,he wasn't attacking and making the fight ,as George generally did.
Jeffries stamina and durability was mainly tested against smaller, older men.

[QueensburyRules]

"I will never take a chance on losing my title to a black man,when there are no more white challengers to fight,I will retire." Jim Jeffries.

"I will not defend my title against a black man".Jim Jeffries.

" Johnson may be good,he may be as good as the whole Japanese Navy,but I will not fight him,"Jim Jeffries.

"The Heavyweight title is too prestigious to risk it falling into the hands of a member of the colored race".Jim Jeffries.

"If Johnson should defeat Hart,and I think he will, I will not fight him,if Hart should win,and there is enough public demand for it.I will give him a chance." Jim Jeffries.

"Will you give Johnson a title chance?" " I am not into fighting skunks"Jim Jeffries.

- - Funny how you quote artifacts making my point that JJ was shyte coming up at the same time as Jeff, yet they fought when the $$$ was compelling. Must be that persistent snail dribble staining your pants in public on this forum...phew...

[JAB5239]

- - Funny how you quote artifacts making my point that JJ was shyte coming up at the same time as Jeff, yet they fought when the $$$ was compelling. Must be that persistent snail dribble staining your pants in public on this forum...phew...

They couldn't fight before they did because Jeffries wouldn't risk his title. He said so himself. Facts.