Jeffries vs Foreman

[Dr. Z]

Sullivan, Corbett, Jeffries, Tunney all said they would never defended their titles against a black man. None did. So what they said is what they did. It didn't change in fact until James Braddock with the lone exception of Tommy Burns.

Well we must look at the offers then. If are honest when the money was there for Jeffries, ( the highest amount for the time ) like most fighters he fought.

I believe if there was a Reno like purse in 1905 or 1906 he would have knocked whomever out, including Johnson as both and Hart were viewed below Jeffries in Jeffries prime. Did you know Jeffries said he would have fought Hart if there was a big demand for it in 1905?! There wasn't. Nor was there a big enough purse in 1906. He almost came back to fight Bill Lang but the money and fame was not enough.

If the purse was high enough for Tunney he would have fought Wills. In fact he says so in a news clip when both we active and openly offered a past his prime Wills a fight.

That is the truth.

[Bronson66]

What fighters say and what they do changes does it not? I view it as anytime a fighter fights for money and is champion, the title is on the line. And by the way Jeffries picked up the linear British championship from Peter Jackson. And defended his lineal world title vs. Johnson.

So much for the quote.

Jackson was never British Champion,and he was never eligible to be so.
Jeffries was guaranteed a purse to defend against both Denver Ed Martin and Sam McVey that far exceeded his purses for defending against Jack Munroe and John Finnegan,but he ignored those offers.
He retired because he was disappointed with his take from the Munroe fight,and there were no more soft white challengers for him to meet.
FACT Jeffries never defended against a black challenger.,and he was quite open about never doing so.
Any attempts to spin this any other way are just so much BS.
Jeffries reneged on a contract to fight Lang,and that was the cause of his split from his manager William Brady.

[QueensburyRules]

Jackson was never British Champion,and he was never eligible to be so.
Jeffries was guaranteed a purse to defend against both Denver Ed Martin and Sam McVey that far exceeded his purse for defending against Jack Munroe and John Finnegan,but he ignored those offers.He retired because he was disappointed with his take from the Munroe fight,and there were no more soft white challengers for him to meet.
FACT Jeffries never defended against a black challenger.,and he was quite open about never doing so.
Any attempts to spin this any other way are just so much BS.
Jeffries reneged on a contract to fight Lang,and that was the cause of his split from his manager William Brady.

- - Jeff beat up several fighters who beat or otherwise made JJ LOOK LIKE U Snail d00d00.He was fed up with boxing to retire as a wealthy farme, about 100x more than U scrawny boxing experiences…

[JAB5239]

- - Jeff beat up several fighters who beat or otherwise made JJ LOOK LIKE U Snail d00d00.He was fed up with boxing to retire as a wealthy farme, about 100x more than U scrawny boxing experiences…

Doesn't change the FACT he refused to fight a black fighters for the title.

[QueensburyRules]

Doesn't change the FACT he refused to fight a black fighters for the title.

- - Mr banned snail gourmand agree wif U...hip, hip hurrah...

[Dr. Z]

Bronson66

Jackson was never British Champion,and he was never eligible to be so.
Jeffries was guaranteed a purse to defend against both Denver Ed Martin and Sam McVey that far exceeded his purses for defending against Jack Munroe and John Finnegan,but he ignored those offers.
He retired because he was disappointed with his take from the Munroe fight,and there were no more soft white challengers for him to meet.
FACT Jeffries never defended against a black challenger.,and he was quite open about never doing so.
Any attempts to spin this any other way are just so much BS.

Back in England in 1892, Jackson won the British Empire championship with a second-round knockout of Jem Smith and then defended the title with a 10th-round knockout of Frank Slavin.

)

The Martin and McVey purses were not higher than then Corbett, and Fitz. Do you want proff? I'm guesssing you don't.

No offer post Muroe in 1905 or 1906 to Jeffries was high enough or generated enough interest, although Jeffries said he would fight Hart, won beat Johnson in 1905 if there was demand for it.

All of the above are facts. You are 0-3 on attempted " spins. "

Now if you believe in the lineal championship concept the title is on the line anytime the champion steps into the ring as Jeffries did for a fight prize fight in 1901 ....

Jeffries did defend his lineal championship against an African American / Black man. Want the wager something? It seems you dug in your heels. Ante up if you are game.

I have been busy lately, but have some free time for the holidays. How have you been?

[Dr. Z]

Doesn't change the FACT he refused to fight a black fighters for the title.

This is not accurate. I offer Bronson a wager. If he declines I will entertian you.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali didn't have fragile hands until after the forced exile. I would definetly favour him to outpoint or TKO Jeff late with little gloves.

Frazier's a toss up. Given both were slow starters and Frazier picked up speed as the fight goest on, I'd almost favour Frazier for a late round stoppage; but, truthfully, this one could go either way because Jeff presents a similar picture to Frazier that Foreman did...the difference being in who starts faster. Got to go with Joe.

With Norton...definetily have to go with Jeff. Norton froze like a deer in headlights anytime he faced a true puncher. Jeff would stop him around the 4th or 5th.

Holyfield would beat Jeff over the 15 round course. Holy was too active and too tough, not to mention faster and a superiour counterpuncher with a great chin. Holy by UD....maybe later round TKO from bustin' Jeff up.

- - So, U say Ali became a sissy handed puncher because of a layoff?

[Bronson66]

- - So, U say Ali became a sissy handed puncher because of a layoff?

This is what he said.
"Ali didn't have fragile hands until after the forced exile."

[Biledriver]

The thing that never ceases to amaze me is the thoughtless disregard by so many boxing fans of fighters from so many years ago; this whole, with today's training methods, etc. Such post-modernism arrogance is no different than those crotchedy old-timers who discount all modern fighters as being too soft to ever measure up to the all time greats they listened to on the radio. Specualtion has no place for absolutism; it's a contradiction of concepts.

If you look at the big picture from the beginning of boxing's modern roots with Jim Corbett to present, more things balance out than most are willing to admit. Today there's more technical dieting and weight training...supposedly. Bigger men are "better athletes". Right.

Today's modern big men only fight for 12 rounds. "but they only threw one punch a round". Says who? How preposterous is the idea that older fighters only threw 1 punch at a time all round? IT'S LUDICROUS!! Just because Dempsey was the first to through multi-punch combinations with murderous intentions that people remember doesn't mean that previous fighters hadn't done it. Where does the arrogance come from that "ancient" fighter didn't know how to throw two or three punches at a time?

The fact is those who wrap themselves in the blanket of modern securtiy can't admit to themselves that there is a strong possibilty that we have grown softer as a society. They don't want to admit for every plus, there's a minus; for every convenience invented, for every luxury brought into the mainstream, there is something lost.

Think about people before the 20th century who lived in un-airconditioned or unheated housing, save for the cool breeze and fireplace in uninsulated walls. Would they not look at today's modern civilization as a bunch of pansies?

"...with the advancement of weight training and physical conditioning, blah, blah, blah...."

Do not put your faith is such trinkets of deceit. There is a price to pay for every luxury. For everything you gain, you lose something. For every modern convenience, something is lost in terms of raw survival skills.

We, in the 21st century, take far too much for granted. And that's gonna come back to bite us in the ass someday.

Do you want some croutons and Ranch with that word salad?