Does anyone still think the old time heavyweights were too small to be competitive in the modern era?

[Bronson66]

[QUOTE=them_apples;n32401038]

Once again I sourced it

even if we throw my post out the window.Quote.


These are your earlier claims.
"12/15 miles in boots daily"

"Last 4 rounds in a fight involved him throwing100/120 punches per round".

[Dr Z]

An easy thing to say, but a difficult thing to prove.

An attempt at a blanced view:



The concept of how heavyweight boxers weighing between 195-210 pounds would perform in today's competition involves several considerations:
Historical Context:

• Historically, boxing has seen a range of weights in the heavyweight division. Legends like Muhammad Ali (who typically weighed around 210 pounds during his prime) and Joe Louis (around 198 pounds) were successful despite being on the lighter side compared to some of today's heavyweights.

Modern Day Considerations:

1. Physicality:
   • Size Advantage: Today's heavyweights can often be much larger, with some fighters weighing well over 240 pounds. This size can translate into a power and reach advantage. However, speed, agility, and endurance are also critical, areas where lighter heavyweights might hold an advantage.
   • Athleticism: Modern training regimes, nutrition science, and sports medicine have evolved, potentially making lighter heavyweights more athletic than their historical counterparts.
2. Style of Fighting:
   • Boxing Styles: The evolution of boxing styles means that a lighter heavyweight with exceptional skill, footwork, and defensive capabilities might outperform a larger but less skilled opponent. The success of fighters like Wladimir Klitschko, who maintained a lighter weight for much of his career, showcases how technique can triumph over size.
3. Training and Preparation:
   • Modern Techniques: Today's boxers benefit from advanced training methods, including better strength and conditioning, which could help a lighter heavyweight compete against larger opponents.
   • Mental Game: Psychological preparation, including sports psychology, can be leveraged by any fighter, potentially giving lighter boxers an edge in strategy and mental resilience.
4. Division Dynamics:
   • Weight Class Fluidity: The heavyweight division today is less rigidly defined by weight due to the upper limit being unrestricted. This means we see a broader range of weights, with fighters sometimes bulking up for specific matches.
5. Sentiments:
   • Some posters suggest a belief that classic heavyweights like Ali or Larry Holmes would still dominate in today's scene due to their skill, ring IQ, and heart. However, these are opinions often based on nostalgia rather than current competitive analysis.

Potential Performance:

• Advantages for Lighter Heavyweights:
  • Speed and Agility: Lighter fighters might have quicker hands and feet, dodging or outmaneuvering heavier opponents. Louis' defense kinda sucks. He is going to be hit by harder and better punchers.
  • Endurance: They might tire out less quickly, maintaining a higher pace over rounds. This is plausible.
  • Boxing IQ: Skill, strategy, and experience can be significant, especially if they've been fighting at a high level. Louis was slow to adapt in fights
• Challenges:
  • Power: Larger opponents might pack more knockout power, posing a significant threat if they land a solid punch.
  • Reach: If the heavier fighter has a longer reach, it could complicate the lighter boxer's game plan.
• Conclusion:
  • It's plausible that boxers from this weight range could do well if they possess exceptional boxing skills, stamina, and tactical acumen. However, it would depend heavily on individual matchups. Some might excel, leveraging their agility and technique, while others might struggle against the sheer physicality of today's top heavyweights. The key would be adaptability and how well their style meshes with current trends in heavyweight boxing. And their chin.

In summary, while size does play a role in boxing, it's not the sole determinant of success. Technique, fitness, strategy, and the ability to exploit an opponent's weaknesses can make lighter heavyweights competitive or even dominant in today's era. However, they would need to be at the top of their game to overcome the physical disadvantages in some bouts.

Giving up a lot of size and reach while having poor footwork and a shaky chin as Louis did does not convince me. The big oafs that Louis fought in his day do not come close to comparing with modern skilled heavyweights! Sorry to rain on your nostalgila.

- Dr Z

[Bronson66]

An attempt at a blanced view:



The concept of how heavyweight boxers weighing between 195-210 pounds would perform in today's competition involves several considerations:
Historical Context:

• Historically, boxing has seen a range of weights in the heavyweight division. Legends like Muhammad Ali (who typically weighed around 210 pounds during his prime) and Joe Louis (around 198 pounds) were successful despite being on the lighter side compared to some of today's heavyweights.

Modern Day Considerations:

1. Physicality:
   • Size Advantage: Today's heavyweights can often be much larger, with some fighters weighing well over 240 pounds. This size can translate into a power and reach advantage. However, speed, agility, and endurance are also critical, areas where lighter heavyweights might hold an advantage.
   • Athleticism: Modern training regimes, nutrition science, and sports medicine have evolved, potentially making lighter heavyweights more athletic than their historical counterparts.
2. Style of Fighting:
   • Boxing Styles: The evolution of boxing styles means that a lighter heavyweight with exceptional skill, footwork, and defensive capabilities might outperform a larger but less skilled opponent. The success of fighters like Wladimir Klitschko, who maintained a lighter weight for much of his career, showcases how technique can triumph over size.
3. Training and Preparation:
   • Modern Techniques: Today's boxers benefit from advanced training methods, including better strength and conditioning, which could help a lighter heavyweight compete against larger opponents.
   • Mental Game: Psychological preparation, including sports psychology, can be leveraged by any fighter, potentially giving lighter boxers an edge in strategy and mental resilience.
4. Division Dynamics:
   • Weight Class Fluidity: The heavyweight division today is less rigidly defined by weight due to the upper limit being unrestricted. This means we see a broader range of weights, with fighters sometimes bulking up for specific matches.
5. Sentiments:
   • Some posters suggest a belief that classic heavyweights like Ali or Larry Holmes would still dominate in today's scene due to their skill, ring IQ, and heart. However, these are opinions often based on nostalgia rather than current competitive analysis.

Potential Performance:

• Advantages for Lighter Heavyweights:
  • Speed and Agility: Lighter fighters might have quicker hands and feet, dodging or outmaneuvering heavier opponents. Louis' defense kinda sucks. He is going to be hit by harder and better punchers.
  • Endurance: They might tire out less quickly, maintaining a higher pace over rounds. This is plausible.
  • Boxing IQ: Skill, strategy, and experience can be significant, especially if they've been fighting at a high level. Louis was slow to adapt in fights
• Challenges:
  • Power: Larger opponents might pack more knockout power, posing a significant threat if they land a solid punch.
  • Reach: If the heavier fighter has a longer reach, it could complicate the lighter boxer's game plan.
• Conclusion:
  • It's plausible that boxers from this weight range could do well if they possess exceptional boxing skills, stamina, and tactical acumen. However, it would depend heavily on individual matchups. Some might excel, leveraging their agility and technique, while others might struggle against the sheer physicality of today's top heavyweights. The key would be adaptability and how well their style meshes with current trends in heavyweight boxing. And their chin.

In summary, while size does play a role in boxing, it's not the sole determinant of success. Technique, fitness, strategy, and the ability to exploit an opponent's weaknesses can make lighter heavyweights competitive or even dominant in today's era. However, they would need to be at the top of their game to overcome the physical disadvantages in some bouts.

Giving up a lot of size and reach while having poor footwork and a shaky chin as Louis did does not convince me. The big oafs that Louis fought in his day do not come close to comparing with modern skilled heavyweights! Sorry to rain on you nostalgila.

- Dr Z

No spelling mistakes until the end leads me to the conclusion, only the underlined is your work,the rest has been copied.

[Dr Z]

How can you in your right mind go and make a statement saying all Marciano did was run 3-5 miles in camp for conditioning. Then source it - but conveniently leave out the fact that he ramps it up to 15 miles. How is that being honest if we are discussing boxing in a forum?

Honesty is not Bronson's forte.

[them_apples]

[QUOTE=Bronson66;n32401199]

Once again I sourced it

even if we throw my post out the window.Quote.


These are your earlier claims.
"12/15 miles in boots daily"

"Last 4 rounds in a fight involved him throwing100/120 punches per round".�/div>

This isn’t too far off the mark though. His punch output sky rockets in the later rounds. He broke 100 a few times and kept it around there

its impossible to be exactly on number every time, the point is he was easily capable

same with the running. He did run 12/15 daily! Just near the end of his camp!

[them_apples]

Who said bringing him into the future? Nobody said bring him into the future, the only ones doing that are you and Apple boy.

I guess you haven't been as long on fighting forums because you don't seem to realize how it's always been done in these threads. You pick a modern fighter and match him up against a fighter from the past exactly as they were. it was done that way in old "computer fights". In boxing m4gazines where they had fun matchups. etc.

Now, the fact that you have to do this "bring him into the future" tactic to make them bigger tells me you're already desperate. You're not very confident picking these small heavyweights against modern giants, otherwise you wouldn't feel the need to blow them up in size to make things more competitive. It really tells me all I need to know.

Well what stage is it on then?

are we doing 15 rounds? Do heavyweights get 8 oz gloves and open mitts? Are the refs more lax? Even better is it 20 rounds? 6 oz biking gloves?

its gotta take place somewhere. We either all get smartphones and roids or we get the circumstances of a man in the 1920s

[IronDanHamza]

He was a middleweight when Shawn Porter beat him, when he was 19.

You know what the hell I was talking about, genius

Ok?

You said he’s a natural Middleweight, when he’s not.

[them_apples]

Ok?

You said he’s a natural Middleweight, when he’s not.

That famous photo of him standing beside the K bros. He’s at the very highest a light heavy. Give a light heavy peds and you get Usyk. Hes got all the telltale signs. I guarantee you can spot them yourself.

[BKM-]

Well what stage is it on then?

are we doing 15 rounds? Do heavyweights get 8 oz gloves and open mitts? Are the refs more lax? Even better is it 20 rounds? 6 oz biking gloves?

its gotta take place somewhere. We either all get smartphones and roids or we get the circumstances of a man in the 1920s

None of those aspects are gonna change the outcome of the fight like a massize size change will. None of them except for amount of rounds, and even 15 rounds instead of 12 isn't going to change most of these matchups. In truth, boxing is one of the few sports that hasn't changed all that much in the last 100 years except for the heavyweights. Most will have no issue arguing Ray Robinson could beat modern fighters. Marciano is a different story.

It's pretty simple, these matchups have always been done that way. Post early 20th century boxers aren't gonna have much trouble fighting modern fighters other than in the heavyweight division because of the massive size change over time.

It's only you two doing this because again, you are not truly confident matching up your favorite small HW's. You have to blow them up to ridiculous proportions like 25 pounds of extra muscle(have you done the little test yet I told you about feeling what 1 pound of chicken breast feels like?) and you still pretend that it won't change the fighter's attributes, style and technique completely, often making the fighter worse and not better if he's not suited to carry that extra weight.

It's dishonest and is a sign of lacking confidence in your arguments.

[IronDanHamza]

That famous photo of him standing beside the K bros. Heâs at the very highest a light heavy. Give a light heavy peds and you get Usyk. Hes got all the telltale signs. I guarantee you can spot them yourself.

Not really. He was competing and winning titles at Heavyweight at age 21.

He's not a natural Middleweight, or a natural Light Heavyweight.

As for PED usage, probably. Impossible to say beyond guess work without any data.