Jeffries vs Foreman

[them_apples]

Forte was 199lbs Foreman 216lbs

Forte had 45 fights under his belt, Foreman 11.
The fight was a 10 rounder

Jeffries went 20 rds to a draw with Choynski

Jeffries was 219lbs, Choynski 167lbs

Choynski had 47fights ,Jeffries 9.

Choynski was of course much better than journeyman Forte, but he earned a draw whereas Forte was beaten convincingly.

As well as the attributes you mentioned,may I mention experience and mindset?

ie Was Forte trying to win ,or just survive? Opponents just looking to stay the distance can be .as we know, extremely difficult to get out of there.

forte was 172 lbs in his boxing debut.

[Bronson66]

forte was 172 lbs in his boxing debut.

And Jack Johnson was a middleweight,Sam Langford was a light weight,Jimmy Ellis was a middleweight,Ezzard Charles was a middleweight,Floyd Patterson was a middleweight.Muhammad Ali was a light heavyweight,Archie Moore was a middleweight, all of which means what? In 47 of Forte's 51 fights he was over the light heavyweight limit

[Dr. Z]

He said the Finnegan fight was in 1900. He also said the McVea fight was offered to Jeff in 1903. At that time same had already shared the ring with Jack Johnson twice, and Denver Ed Martin. The fight was viable at that timebr he instead fought the shell of Corbett and Jack Munroe instead. At that time Mcvey was at least as dangerous as Munroe and offered a bigger purse. Jeffries didn't want it.

A press offer from some C rated promoter is NOT what a fight is guaranteed to make! There are lots of offers. The gate was the real amount back then. There was not much interest in that fight. Jeffries made way more vs. Jim Corbett.

Yeah, the teenage Sam Mcvey fought Johsnon twice and made a bad showing. Jeffries said he would fight Hart who beat Johsnon in 1905 .. but there wasn't demand for it. Mcvey quit boxing in 1905-1906. As such the boxing public lost interest in him.


FACTS. Embrace them, not some angry old fool who keeps changing poster names.

[Bronson66]

A press offer from some C rated promoter is NOT what a fight is guaranteed to make! There are lots of offers. The gate was the real amount back then. There was not much interest in that fight. Jeffries made way more vs. Jim Corbett.

Yeah, the teenage Sam Mcvey fought Johsnon twice and made a bad showing. Jeffries said he would fight Hart who beat Johsnon in 1905 .. but there wasn't demand for it. Mcvey quit boxing in 1905-1906. As such the boxing public lost interest in him.


FACTS. Embrace them, not some angry old fool who keeps changing poster names.

Thats right the offer to Jeffries was the GUARANTEED MINIMUM he would make!

Jeffries defended for the last time against Munroe on26th of August 1904.that same month,2 weeks earlier ,McVey fought Denver Ed Martin,both challenged Jeffries and were ignored,as was the man who beat them both Jack Johnson.
Are you seriously telling me that Jack Munroe was a more worthy challenger in1904 than Johnson,McVey and Martin?
Are you also saying that Jeffries would not have made more money from fighting any and all of them than he received for defending in that farce against Munroe?

So disappointed was Jeffries with his purse for the Munroe debacle he promptly retired!
The alternative would have been to face the black challengers and this we know, from Jeffries own mouth,he was never going to do.

In1900 Jeffries defended his title against John Finnegan 4-2-4, Finnegan had been demolished in 4rds by Gus Ruhlin 3 months earlier.
"Finnegan of Pittsburgh was on his back ten seconds after the first bell. He beat the count and survived the round, but took a beating in the second round, only saved by the bell. In the third round, two hard lefts knocked him through the ropes. He crawled back in to beat the count again, but his seconds had to carry him to his corner. Seconds into the 4th round Ruhlin dropped him again, and inside the next minute and a half he dumped "The Pittsburg Stogie" on the canvas four more times. As the police moved to stop the fight, Richard McCormick, Finnegan's manager, ran into the ring and carried his man to his corner."

In1899,the year previously Frank Childs had beaten among others ;
Butler
Klon***e x2
Everett
Armstrong
And in1900, Childs beat George Byers for the Coloured Heavyweight Title,Fred Russell x3.Mexican Pete Everett,and Joe Butler.
.
Was Finnegan a better opponent for Jeffries than Childs in1900?
Jeffries received just $1,800 for the Finnegan fiasco because everyone knew it was a total mismatch . Would he not have made more from fighting the coloured heavyweight champion?
A man who held 3 wins over a common opponent Bob Armstrong,but,whereas Jeffries had only beaten Armstrong on points Childs had stopped him in 2 of their 3 of their fights.

I'm not angry,I just dislike liars and you are the paramount liar on this forum, and the one you were banned from.
So DR Z /Mendoza ,I've rebutted all your deliberate false hoods.
Those are the facts,and no amount of mis spelt prevarication and racist Bull **** bluster from you will alter them!

[QueensburyRules]

- - Jeff was 12-0-2 when he fought Finnegan with 4 of those wins over "persons of color" as modern American sociopathic sociologists have "politically" created with far better results than JJ when he fought them. Moreover, black contender Bob Armstrong with most of his wins KOs appears to have been ducked by JJ...

[JAB5239]

- - Jeff was 12-0-2 when he fought Finnegan with 4 of those wins over "persons of color" as modern American sociopathic sociologists have "politically" created with far better results than JJ when he fought them. Moreover, black contender Bob Armstrong with most of his wins KOs appears to have been ducked by JJ...

Doesn't change the FACT he refused to defend the title against a black challenger even when he could have made more money.

[Biledriver]

I'm not angry,I just dislike liars and you are the paramount liar on this forum, and the one you were banned from.
So DR Z /Mendoza ,I've rebutted all your deliberate false hoods.
Those are the facts,and no amount of mis spelt prevarication and racist Bull **** bluster from you will alter them!

He really has taken up mantle of Captain Save-A-Ho for white (especially Eastern Euro ones) fighters that used to be Tunney/FREEDOM's self-appointed role

[Biledriver]

George might actually kill im dude

"When the name is strange, and the post-count's suss. Who ya gonna call? ALT BUSTERS!!!!!"

[shawnkemp804]

Post like this always crack me up because you can tell the race of the person by the answer they have . Jeffries was considered stronger for late 1800 early 1900 standards when he was pushing around mostly 180 pound guys. Foreman was considered strong period. Boxing styles have also evolved. Jeffries style was primitive by modern standards.

Foreman by brutal 1st round KO.

[Bronson66]

- - Jeff was 12-0-2 when he fought Finnegan with 4 of those wins over "persons of color" as modern American sociopathic sociologists have "politically" created with far better results than JJ when he fought them. Moreover, black contender Bob Armstrong with most of his wins KOs appears to have been ducked by JJ...

Common opponents of Armstrong and Johnson

Denver Ed Martin. Armstrong L 15. Johnson W Dec & W Ko2

Frank Childs. Armstrong L6,L10,L6 LKo. Johnson W Tko12,

Sandy Ferguson Armstrong L ko1 Johnson W x5

Walter Johnson Armstrong Lko4 Johnson W Ko3

Given these results , what basis is there for implying Johnson ducked Armstrong who had his last fight in1904, 4 years before Johnson won the title?

PS Jeffries had15 fights when he fought Finnegan.only3 were with coloured fighters Armstrong,Griffin, and the alcoholic, consumptive, totally washed up Jackson,who had not fought for over 5 years.

Keep Trying! The law of averages says you must get something right eventually! lol