Jeffries vs Foreman

[Bronson66]

I have to disagree. If Jeffries was not the lineal champion then we can't say Johnson was done dirty. And JJ was done dirty.

Johnson chased Burns around the world, literally, and won the title. The moment he won the title White men suddenly decided Burns wasn't actually champion and until Johnson beat Jeffries they wouldn't acknowledge JJ's claim.

The dirty they did, was make Johnson win the title twice.

So Jeffries in the eyes of White men was in fact defending his title.

But none of this really matters to us, just them, back then.

Johnson chased Jeffries around America too. Appearing at his defences and challenging him . lol.

[Bronson66]

I made some posts in this thread in 2006, usually I cringe at my 16 year old self but it wasn't too bad. Thinking Foreman beats a boxer from the early 20th century doesn't sound too crazy.

But today I feel differently and I agree with you, this might actually be one of the toughest matchups for the bull that was prime George Foreman. People always say a swarmer dies against Big George, anybody who can only fight going forward would go down against Foreman etc.

But what if somebody managed to put him on the backfoot? What would happen? We know it's possible, Sonny Liston did it when they sparred.

2006 was a tremendous year for boxing btw I just had to put this out there.

I wouldn't classify Jeffries as a swarmer,certainly not in the 1st Corbett,2nd Fitz, and both Sharkey fights.

[Dr. Z]

He wasn't lineal vs Johnson. Johnson was the lineal champion. And the Griffin fight was a four round exhibition. There was NO title at stake just as there wasn't in Jeff's next fight.

Most people think the lineal champion must be beaten in the ring. Jeffreis was in the ring with the lineal champion on the line vs. two men of color. The ref was tha same guy who referred to another Jeffries fight and was the ref in the ring in the colored championship fight between Childs and Johsnon. The lineal championship is one the line anytime he fights for prize money.


You are grasping at straws now. That is if you do not believe in the linear concept. Well, do you?

[Bronson66]

Most people think the lineal champion must be beaten in the ring. Jeffreis was in the ring with the lineal champion on the line vs. two men of color. The ref was thasame guy who referred to another Jeffries fight and was the ref in the ring in the colored championship fight between Childs and Johsnon. The lineal championship is one the line anytime he fights for prize money.


You are grasping at straws now. That is if you do not believe in the linear concept. Well, do you?

JEFFRIES [not Jeffreis] NEVER DEFENDED HIS TITLE AGAINST A BLACK CHALLENGER.

Despite being challenged by three of them,Johnson,McVey,and Martin.

The lineal title is NOT on the line every time a heavyweight champion fights for prize money.
Champion Jeffries fought Griffin and Kennedy for money .neither were title fights.
Johnson fought McClaglen for money, that was not a title fight.
Fitzsimmons fought Lou Joslin for money,that was not a title fight.

[JAB5239]

Most people think the lineal champion must be beaten in the ring. Jeffreis was in the ring with the lineal champion on the line vs. two men of color. The ref was tha same guy who referred to another Jeffries fight and was the ref in the ring in the colored championship fight between Childs and Johsnon. The lineal championship is one the line anytime he fights for prize money.


You are grasping at straws now. That is if you do not believe in the linear concept. Well, do you?

Wrong. After Jeff retired the two best contenders (who weren't black) fought for the heavyweight championship. Sorry, but this was the same when Lennox retired and Wlad beat Chageav. Otherwise Lewis would still be lineal champion. And jeff didn't fight Griffen for anything more than exhibition money which is why it was a four round fight and declared a NC. The only one grasping at straws here is you Z.

[QueensburyRules]

The Griffin fight was not a world championship fight, and he didn't DEFEND against Johnson. He would not put his belt up against a black man ever, as he stated he wouldnt. And looking more closely, Jeffries was no longer the lineal champion when he fought Johnson. He gave that title up when he retired.

- - Jeff already beat or otherwise KOed black fighters who beat JJ and otherwise gave JJ a hard time.

There is no hard consensus as to what constitutes Lineal, ie no Lineal Org, so when Jeff rematched Griffin, a group could claim Griffin the Lineal Champ.

Johnson was never lineal until he beat 6 yrs retired Jeff, a criminal obscenity if the Lineal Boxing Loons weren't so ******, the current dumerest sport in the world...

[billeau2]

I wouldn't classify Jeffries as a swarmer,certainly not in the 1st Corbett,2nd Fitz, and both Sharkey fights.

Hard to even be a swarmer back then... You would get grappled. Where as with the advent of the style popularized by Dempsey, you were on average about one stance length, or less, from the opponent, and your weight could well be forwards. In the preclassical style you had weight usually tending towards the back leg, and alot of your set up was to get into range, shoot your punch, after which you would come to some variation of gripes upon each other...

This is one of a few reasons it is hard to impress on others how a fighter from Jeffries' generation could be so skillful when the fighting looks byzantine lol. A lot of the skill was the set up to land one punch at the proper range, along with tricks to hit in the grapple.

[ShoulderRoll]

Bob Fitzimmons gave up 40+ pounds against Jim Jeffries and still busted him up.

Foreman would have killed Jeffries. No contest in my opinion.

[JAB5239]

- - Jeff already beat or otherwise KOed black fighters who beat JJ and otherwise gave JJ a hard time.

There is no hard consensus as to what constitutes Lineal, ie no Lineal Org, so when Jeff rematched Griffin, a group could claim Griffin the Lineal Champ.

Johnson was never lineal until he beat 6 yrs retired Jeff, a criminal obscenity if the Lineal Boxing Loons weren't so ******, the current dumerest sport in the world...

First off, triangle theories have never worked. Styles make fights. Vits lost to Byrd but Wlad handled him with ease. Wlad was ko'd by Sanders, but Vits ko'd Sanders.

Second, Griffin vs Jeff was not a championship fight by any means. It was a 4 round exhibition. That would be like saying if Joe Louis fought a four round exhibition during WWII that his lineal title would go to the other fighter had he lost. How many championship fights, lineal or otherwise have been scheduled for four rounds?

Third.....do you realize how ridiculous you sound saying "there is no hard consensus as to what constitues lineal" and then in the next breath claim "Johnson was not lineal until he beat the 6 years retired Jeff"?

The fact is, once the top two contenders for the heavyweight championship squared off Jeffries no longer had a claim to any title, lineal or otherwise. Like I said to Z, if you believe this you have to believe Lennox Lewis is still the lineal champion since he retired that way and never came back. You can't have it both ways.

[JAB5239]

Bob Fitzimmons gave up 40+ pounds against Jim Jeffries and still busted him up.

Foreman would have killed Jeffries. No contest in my opinion.

BKM has made some good points, but I tend to agree with this.