How Much Do You Respect Holyfield

[BKM-2010]

Wow could it be Holyfield is really the best of our era and not Lewis?

This question was answered when they fought, though.

[Sugarj]

I think you're going a bit overboard with the 'versions', respectfully.

With respect it was you who said 'that a prime version of the Real Deal is Evander Holyfield, not Evan Fields'. I at least distinguished in terms of title fights and not rumour.

I think that most boxing fans can easily distinguish between a fighter in his prime and a fighter a little past his best. Bottom line, Holyfield's true prime was probably around the time of the first two Bowe fights, Lewis's prime was probably 5 years later. If we're comparing the two; its either going to be prime for prime or based on what actually happened when they met.

I think its clear that Lewis dominated more of the 24 rounds that they fought in 1999. But your own opinion that Lewis was subpar for the rematch could easily be offset with a suggestion that either Holyfield was overconfident and subpar for the first match....(hell he was predicting a third round KO!), or that he simply brought his 'then' A-game into fight 2.

Lewis had no reason not to be motivated for the rematch; after clearly dominating Holyfield probably 9:3 in rounds and only being awarded a draw first time round, if it were me I'd make sure that I was even more decisive in the return.

Which ever way you look at it, Lewis was better than Holyfield in 1999. But prime for prime? Tough call......

[Sugarj]

Wow could it be Holyfield is really the best of our era and not Lewis?

I wouldn't have said 'our era', Lewis's reign is now just a distant, happy memory for me at least! Its more like saying 'who was the best heavyweight of the 80s, Holmes or Tyson?'

Obviously Holmes dominated 1980-1985 and Tyson dominated 1986-1989.

Whilst Holyfield and Lewis dominated the heavyweight division in the 1990s, it was clear that Lewis lasted at a higher level post 2000. Their primes never quite coincided.

I wouldn't argue with anyone who suggested that Lewis deserves the accolade of best overall heavyweight of the 1990s. He only lost once and avenged it in that decade! Holyfield obviously lost to Bowe twice, Moorer and Lewis (arguably twice).

Holyfield may have the better wins in key fights in the decade. Bowe 2 and Tyson 1 & 2 jump to mind. Lewis never beat anybody of that calibre in the 90s unless you include old Evander himself. The Brunos, Golotas, Akinwandes, Ruddocks, Morrisons, McCalls and Mercers were not of the level of 1993 Bowe or 1996 Tyson.

But as I've said in a couple of previous posts, I might lean towards a Holyfield decision if he and Lewis were to have met in their respective primes.

[BKM-2010]

With respect it was you who said 'that a prime version of the Real Deal is Evander Holyfield, not Evan Fields'. I at least distinguished in terms of title fights and not rumour.

I think that most boxing fans can easily distinguish between a fighter in his prime and a fighter a little past his best. Bottom line, Holyfield's true prime was probably around the time of the first two Bowe fights, Lewis's prime was probably 5 years later. If we're comparing the two; its either going to be prime for prime or based on what actually happened when they met.

I think its clear that Lewis dominated more of the 24 rounds that they fought in 1999. But your own opinion that Lewis was subpar for the rematch could easily be offset with a suggestion that either Holyfield was overconfident and subpar for the first match....(hell he was predicting a third round KO!), or that he simply brought his 'then' A-game into fight 2.

Lewis had no reason not to be motivated for the rematch; after clearly dominating Holyfield probably 9:3 in rounds and only being awarded a draw first time round, if it were me I'd make sure that I was even more decisive in the return.

Which ever way you look at it, Lewis was better than Holyfield in 1999. But prime for prime? Tough call......

Yes but you were the one that went overboard. I only see two versions of both men: Holyfield pre and post steroids(or atleast the one who was stronger and more massive i.e. the guy who was pushing Tyson around like he was a Middleweight) and for Lewis it's pre and post Manny.

Like I said, I truly believe that Evander was at his best to face Lewis stylistically when he did. When he fought Bowe he lacked more size and strength. His success against Lewis came in close range and on the inside. There were some moments in the rematch where he really took it to Lennox, and I don't see the younger and smaller Evan be succesful with that approach. The only other way is if he tried the outside game but it was clear that he cannot outbox Lewis' long straight punches.

And btw I disagree with your earlier statement that Holyfield's PED use is an 'open debate'. Not with that kind of incriminating evidence against him. You're insulting your own intelligence by looking past it. The only question is when he started using and to what extent, and personally I have a decent idea about that.

[Suckmedry]

Yes but you were the one that went overboard. I only see two versions of both men: Holyfield pre and post steroids(or atleast the one who was stronger and more massive i.e. the guy who was pushing Tyson around like he was a Middleweight) and for Lewis it's pre and post Manny.

Like I said, I truly believe that Evander was at his best to face Lewis stylistically when he did. When he fought Bowe he lacked more size and strength. His success against Lewis came in close range and on the inside. There were some moments in the rematch where he really took it to Lennox, and I don't see the younger and smaller Evan be succesful with that approach. The only other way is if he tried the outside game but it was clear that he cannot outbox Lewis' long straight punches.

And btw I disagree with your earlier statement that Holyfield's PED use is an 'open debate'. Not with that kind of incriminating evidence against him. You're insulting your own intelligence by looking past it. The only question is when he started using and to what extent, and personally I have a decent idea about that.

What's your opinion on when he started ?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Holyfield is a unique and well-rounded fighter. It's kinda crazy that he has wins over Tyson, Bowe and Foreman, but James Toney whooped his ass.

Lol.. That reminds me of footage of James toney talking to Dana white of UFC, about James fighting in the cage... It was taped off someone's cell phone and they are in a back room at this arena, and white is kinda not so keen on it, and was asking him his weight, and white said he has turned down other boxers, and bragged about Holyfield asking him, and toney was like f@ck Holyfield, did you see what i did to him, I knocked him out,, It was pretty funny

[Sugarj]

Yes but you were the one that went overboard. I only see two versions of both men: Holyfield pre and post steroids(or atleast the one who was stronger and more massive i.e. the guy who was pushing Tyson around like he was a Middleweight) and for Lewis it's pre and post Manny.

Like I said, I truly believe that Evander was at his best to face Lewis stylistically when he did. When he fought Bowe he lacked more size and strength. His success against Lewis came in close range and on the inside. There were some moments in the rematch where he really took it to Lennox, and I don't see the younger and smaller Evan be succesful with that approach. The only other way is if he tried the outside game but it was clear that he cannot outbox Lewis' long straight punches.

And btw I disagree with your earlier statement that Holyfield's PED use is an 'open debate'. Not with that kind of incriminating evidence against him. You're insulting your own intelligence by looking past it. The only question is when he started using and to what extent, and personally I have a decent idea about that.

I most certainly did not go overboard. I've only mentioned two versions of Holyfield myself. 1) The prime version (Buster Douglas-before Moorer 1) and 2) The guy who Lewis met.

I have made several posts regarding his possible PED use. I suggest you reread them. I never denied that he has taken them and am open to the possibility that he has.....I made that more than clear. I'm only dubious about the use of actual anabolic steroids knowingly......

[billeau2]

Yes but you were the one that went overboard. I only see two versions of both men: Holyfield pre and post steroids(or atleast the one who was stronger and more massive i.e. the guy who was pushing Tyson around like he was a Middleweight) and for Lewis it's pre and post Manny.

Like I said, I truly believe that Evander was at his best to face Lewis stylistically when he did. When he fought Bowe he lacked more size and strength. His success against Lewis came in close range and on the inside. There were some moments in the rematch where he really took it to Lennox, and I don't see the younger and smaller Evan be succesful with that approach. The only other way is if he tried the outside game but it was clear that he cannot outbox Lewis' long straight punches.

And btw I disagree with your earlier statement that Holyfield's PED use is an 'open debate'. Not with that kind of incriminating evidence against him. You're insulting your own intelligence by looking past it. The only question is when he started using and to what extent, and personally I have a decent idea about that.

Post of the month...... Bravo!!!!!!!!!!

[Panamaniac]

Generally speaking, despite any detractors a fighter might have, I respect any fighter who came (or comes) to fight, not showcase defensive skills. A fighter must have a formidable offensive output to earn my respect. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the exibition of great defense when coupled with a scintillating offense. The primary object and main focus of a fighter should be to inflict bodily harm against his opponent, not protect his own body from it.

Holyfield exemplifies what I respect in a fighter. How much do I respect him? Wholeheartedly!

[Layzie Kidd]

Generally speaking, despite any detractors a fighter might have, I respect any fighter who came (or comes) to fight, not showcase defensive skills. A fighter must have a formidable offensive output to earn my respect. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the exibition of great defense when coupled with a scintillating offense. The primary object and main focus of a fighter should be to inflict bodily harm against his opponent, not protect his own body from it.

Holyfield exemplifies what I respect in a fighter. How much do I respect him? Wholeheartedly!

You know, this is true. Admittedly I dont watch much modern boxing because recently the trend has been to poke each other for points, while aping a Muhammad Ali style. So its not too exciting for me.

But its true Holyfield always did bring the excitement and actually fought. Great counter puncher and could put mean combinations together. Definetly one of the last true fighters and a warrior.