Vinny Paz gets into the IBHOF

[JAB5239]

And for the record, I'm not fan of Pete Rose the man. As a player I believe he should be in the HOF. As a person, not so much. I remember seeing Rose at a few of Pazienza's fights at Foxwoods casino. While I never met him or talked to him we were seated near one another for one of Vinnys fight (don't remember which one). Anyway he had a blonde on his arm that didn't look older than 18. His prerogative. But there was a guy a few rows behind us trying to get his autograph. He was trying to reach over and hand Pete a program or piece of paper to sign and Rose snaps at him " get your ass over here, I'm not reaching back there for you!". Always left a bad taste with me. I remember turning to my cousin who was with me and telling him " I would have told him to **** himself". I've met a lot of athletes, a few celebrities and a ton of fighters and never saw any be that rude, especially considering how much he wanted to be in the HOF. Great baseball player, but a total ****** as a person. At least on that particular night.

[DeeMoney]

Then again, maybe I am wrong.

The other side of the argument could say: they are given so much, based on an emotional attachment (that translates into their wealth) that they have a public obligation for their behavior both on and off the field.

That theirs, because of its connection to the populace, is not merely a profession, but instead needs to be lived like a vocation. E.g. a different form of priesthood, or in the common vernacular a 'role model.'

Eh! I'm really not sure how i feel about it.

No, you were right the first time. Celebrities are just normal, mostly decent, people; just like you or I. The whole connection to the populace, giving them extra worth stuff is nonsense. Thats why we end up trying to get celebrities to endorse candidates.

You were right initially. They are just people, evaluate them professionally based on how they do their job.

[QueensburyRules]

Lol, look at you acting like a big boy and providing links and context!! I'm proud of you. Rose still belongs in the HOF for what he did as a player. If what he did was so pedestrian surely someone would have broken that record by now.

- - What he did as a player was read the MLB prohibition against betting on baseball posted in every locker room used by the MLB before nakedly betting on Baseball.

Guy who deserves to be in HOF is Shoeless Joe Jackson who not only set the WorldSeries Hit record in spite of having one of his hits removed days later, but he hit 0.375 that would've been closer to .400 only to be banned by new Commish Kennesaw who never met a person he didn't want to put in jail. Everybody in Chicago knew the WS had either been fixed from the gitgo or attempted to be fixed which is why US Federal Charges against the players chosen to defend themselves in Court were dropped when the supposed evidence included Baseball Owners that mysterious disappeared from the Courthouse.

A nanogram runt would be a bigger boy than U spec of a nanogram...

[Willie Pep 229]

Why are baseball managers the only manager/coach's who wear a uniform?

So they can enforce a 'no one on the field without a uniform' rule. A rule created at the beginning of the century to keep the gamblers out of the dugout and away from the players during the game.

The 1919 'Black Sox' were not an anomaly. They were the top of a pyramid of corruption.

Some historians say that every World Series between 1912 and 1918 had at least one game fixed by the gamblers and players.

By 1919 it had gotten too corrupt and the White Sox players too greedy that they finally decided to fix the entire series.

I don't think Joe Jackson was a victim. He took money, he was dirty. To me the victim was Bucky Weaver. He didn't take money, he just knew about it.

P.S. I always felt sorry for Tommy Lasorda. At the end they should have made a uniform rules exception for him.

[GhostofDempsey]

I don't have a problem with him going in, he wasn't a highly skilled fighter but what he lacked in skill he made up for with grit and heart. I think coming back from a broken neck is what put him over the top.

[joseph5620]

Pretty sure they both played 24 seasons making this argument null and void. Yer welcome.....

[GhostofDempsey]

IMO --> earlier I posted a sarcastic remark regarding Michael Nunn's drug bust but my real opinion is . . .

A boxer who uses PEDS disparages the prize fight game and should be barred from the HOF.

But a boxer who fails in his private life, e.g. domestic abuse, drug dealing, ETC, does not disparage the game and should not be barred from the HOF.

In the case of Pete Rose, he hurt baseball's reputation when he gambled while the Reds manager.

Another example: Tom Brady's 'deflateGate' was much more damaging than Adrian Petterson's child abuse.

Petterson's child abuse was a State of Texas issue, not the business of the NFL. On the otherhand, Brady's cheating hurt the game of football. That is the business of the NFL.

There have been many HOF fighters who led troubled lives outside of the ring...LaMotta, Robinson, Duran, Leonard, Tyson, and many others. I agree that a fighter who tested positive for PEDs should not be allowed in and whatever happens in their personal life is separate from the sport/business of boxing.

[QueensburyRules]

Why are baseball managers the only manager/coach's who wear a uniform?

So they can enforce a 'no one on the field without a uniform' rule. A rule created at the beginning of the century to keep the gamblers out of the dugout and away from the players during the game.

The 1919 'Black Sox' were not an anomaly. They were the top of a pyramid of corruption.

Some historians say that every World Series between 1912 and 1918 had at least one game fixed by the gamblers and players.

By 1919 it had gotten too corrupt and the White Sox players too greedy that they finally decided to fix the entire series.

I don't think Joe Jackson was a victim. He took money, he was dirty. To me the victim was Bucky Weaver. He didn't take money, he just knew about it.

P.S. I always felt sorry for Tommy Lasorda. At the end they should have made a uniform rules exception for him.

- - Current Top 75 Plate Appearances in history. The top 25 are dominated by either Live Era or Live PED Era:

DeadBall/LiveBall Era Ruth is only at #59 hindered by his 6 years as a pitcher in DeadBall with minor support of 4 yrs with the Yankees. Plate Appearances are every time a batter comes to the plate with nothing subtracted, ie - At Bats/Walks/Hit by a pitch/Sacrife Flies and Hits, ie bunts...jus sayin'

Plate Appearances All Time Leaders | 'Top 1,000'
Name	Plate Appearances	Rank
	15,861	1
	13,991	2
	13,940	3
	13,346	4
	13,072	5
	13,041	6
	12,883	7
	12,817	8
	12,712	9
	12,606	10
	12,602	11
	12,503	12
	12,493	13
	12,358	14
	12,249	15
	12,207	16
	12,160	17
	12,130	18
	12,046	19
	12,037	20
	12,010	21
	11,988	22
	11,796	23
	11,782	24
	11,743	25
	11,738	26
	11,624	27
	11,597	28
	11,416	29
	11,337	30
	11,329	31
	11,304	32
	11,257	33
	11,235	34
	11,230	35
	11,229	36
	11,092	37
	11,031	38
	10,947	39
	10,917	40
	10,861	41
	10,778	42
	10,770	43
	10,769	44
	10,762	45
	10,740	46
	10,737	47
	10,734	48
	10,617	49
	10,611	50
	10,594	51
	10,569	52
	10,550	53
	10,531	54
	10,519	55
	10,492	56
	10,460	57
	10,460
	10,403	59
	10,400	60
	10,400
	10,395	62
	10,359	63
	10,349	64
	10,313	65
	10,270	66
	10,246	67
	10,244	68
	10,243	69
	10,237	70
	10,235	71
	10,232	72
	10,226	73
	10,212	74
	10,184	75

[Willie Pep 229]

- - Current Top 75 Plate Appearances in history. The top 25 are dominated by either Live Era or Live PED Era:

DeadBall/LiveBall Era Ruth is only at #59 hindered by his 6 years as a pitcher in DeadBall with minor support of 4 yrs with the Yankees. Plate Appearances are every time a batter comes to the plate with nothing subtracted, ie - At Bats/Walks/Hit by a pitch/Sacrife Flies and Hits, ie bunts...jus sayin'

Plate Appearances All Time Leaders | 'Top 1,000'
Name	Plate Appearances	Rank
	15,861	1
	13,991	2
	13,940	3
	13,346	4
	13,072	5
	13,041	6
	12,883	7
	12,817	8
	12,712	9
	12,606	10
	12,602	11
	12,503	12
	12,493	13
	12,358	14
	12,249	15
	12,207	16
	12,160	17
	12,130	18
	12,046	19
	12,037	20
	12,010	21
	11,988	22
	11,796	23
	11,782	24
	11,743	25
	11,738	26
	11,624	27
	11,597	28
	11,416	29
	11,337	30
	11,329	31
	11,304	32
	11,257	33
	11,235	34
	11,230	35
	11,229	36
	11,092	37
	11,031	38
	10,947	39
	10,917	40
	10,861	41
	10,778	42
	10,770	43
	10,769	44
	10,762	45
	10,740	46
	10,737	47
	10,734	48
	10,617	49
	10,611	50
	10,594	51
	10,569	52
	10,550	53
	10,531	54
	10,519	55
	10,492	56
	10,460	57
	10,460
	10,403	59
	10,400	60
	10,400
	10,395	62
	10,359	63
	10,349	64
	10,313	65
	10,270	66
	10,246	67
	10,244	68
	10,243	69
	10,237	70
	10,235	71
	10,232	72
	10,226	73
	10,212	74
	10,184	75

Great find.

Rose had two thousand more opportunities over the second place guy. He has almost three thousand opportunities over Ty Cobb.

That is a definite advantage rmthat should be noted.

[QueensburyRules]

Great find.

Rose had two thousand more opportunities over the second place guy. He has almost three thousand opportunities over Ty Cobb.

That is a definite advantage rmthat should be noted.

- - Much later, Rose admitted he was never trying to put himself in the class of Ty Cobb.

The Moment baseball looks just like mine in my last year in the Little Leagues when I hit a stupendous HR over the 275' left center fence. That caused the kid scoreboard operators to exit their large scoreboard projected some 10' over the scoreboard with a pair of dives at each end of the boardwalk.

My two baseball coaches signed it and later on my ****** little brother when he pulled it out of it's cardboard baseball box to play catch with his n'er do well buddies.
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