Prime Rocky Marciano vs Prime Mike Tyson

[Jax teller]

Come on, although not taller Tyson is much bigger Rocky, who would have probably been fighting from MW to LHW nowadays, Danny Jacobs supposedly came in at 182 against GGG fight night for comparison to Rocky's 185. I don't give him much chance against a fully fledged HW like Tyson.

Out of interest how does RJJ do against these two, according to people?

[Lomadeaux]

- -You on the same experimental drugs Mike was on with a clown corner when he fought Buster who still needed the proverbial Dempsey long count to survive?

What grade you in this year?

You figure you’d learn to stop discussing boxing with people who’ve never been in the ring before, but you just keep getting pulled back into it. This moron comes along and I have to learn my lesson all over again.

[QueensburyRules]

You figure you’d learn to stop discussing boxing with people who’ve never been in the ring before, but you just keep getting pulled back into it. This moron comes along and I have to learn my lesson all over again.

- -We talkin' what grade you in this year.

[QueensburyRules]

Come on, although not taller Tyson is much bigger Rocky, who would have probably been fighting from MW to LHW nowadays, Danny Jacobs supposedly came in at 182 against GGG fight night for comparison to Rocky's 185. I don't give him much chance against a fully fledged HW like Tyson.

- -When did Rocky ever fight below heavy?

Answer-NEVER, and why would he when he was knocking out heavies like crazy?

Do you ever think about the difference in boxing then and now 60 yr later?

Well?

[billeau2]

Holyfield was better than Marciano. Clearly.

Buster Douglas was a bigger man than Tyson who always had talent just never put it all together before or after. And Mike's life was a mess going into that fight.

He still took a bunch of hellacious punches flush before finally succumbing. That's how good his chin was.

I think one can hold an opinion that Holyfield was a great fighter. I don't hold that opinion, but I get it. One can even say with some eyebrows raising, that Holly was better than Marciano. However I would not say that the idea Holyfield is better than Marciano is self evident, or "clear" as you put it. It is an opinion in the minority actually.

Holy matched up to Tyson well, and at times looked very good at heavy. He also lost to a lot of guys who could box well at Heavy and was never competative with Lewis.

Lets talk about what it means to have a chin...a bad chin a good one, etc. When a fighter can just take punches, its impressive at times, but what good does that do if it is done for its own sake? Tyson on two occasions at least, showed that he could take abuse in the ring, once against Lewis, the other against Douglas. In neither case did taking those shots allow him a chance to win the fight. Its a similar thing to one of my favorite fighters, Mayorga. He can take punches oh yeah! but when oscar really wanted to KO his butt, well you know....lol.

Now lets talk about another type of chin. Someone like Lamotta, Archie Moore, or another one of my favorites James Toney. These guys have great chins that were used to deflect, set up counters, etc. I think this is a much more impressive way of effective punch resistance. Marciano, if one watches tape, has some of these same skills, though not as on point as these three perhaps.

[ShoulderRoll]

Bigger men does not equal harder punchers and going down is one thing, staying down is another. Marciano fought some of the premier punchers even if they were twilight.

Charlie Goldman did a lot more than that with Marciano to take him to such heights. Marciano was unique in the way he was taught, it allowed him to fight in a way that took advantage of his attributes. Similar to Armstrong for sure... Tyson did indeed have wonderful techniques and I do believe he matches head to head much better than his actual performance as a whole shows him to be as a fighter.

Defensively Tyson did not maintain his technique consistently. He would stop the bob weave and pivot. So for example when he fought Ruddock twice, the latter parts of those two fights he almost lost the fight and was reduced to slugging it out. Yes at his absolute best, early in fights pre-prison he did have wonderful defensive movement, but even then...he won quick!

Tyson when well disciplined was defensively strong but because these attributes faded with lack of training we don't know how steadfast he would be under the kind of pressure a guy like Marciano would bring. Frazier we know, by comparison, could bob and weave throughout a 15 round fight.

Bigger men does not always mean harder punchers. But often it means exactly that.

I would classify Douglas, Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis as harder heavyweight punchers than 38-year-old Jersey Joe Walcott and 39-year-old Archie Moore.

[QueensburyRules]

I would classify Douglas, Holyfield, and Lennox Lewis as harder heavyweight punchers than 38-year-old Jersey Joe Walcott and 39-year-old Archie Moore.

- -Douglas and Lewis both good punchers, but after Big George tore him a new one, Evan Field record dropped to 18-10-2, 7 KOs, not a hard puncher.

Mike was smarter and ducked Big George.

[ShoulderRoll]

I think one can hold an opinion that Holyfield was a great fighter. I don't hold that opinion, but I get it. One can even say with some eyebrows raising, that Holly was better than Marciano. However I would not say that the idea Holyfield is better than Marciano is self evident, or "clear" as you put it. It is an opinion in the minority actually.

Holy matched up to Tyson well, and at times looked very good at heavy. He also lost to a lot of guys who could box well at Heavy and was never competative with Lewis.

Lets talk about what it means to have a chin...a bad chin a good one, etc. When a fighter can just take punches, its impressive at times, but what good does that do if it is done for its own sake? Tyson on two occasions at least, showed that he could take abuse in the ring, once against Lewis, the other against Douglas. In neither case did taking those shots allow him a chance to win the fight. Its a similar thing to one of my favorite fighters, Mayorga. He can take punches oh yeah! but when oscar really wanted to KO his butt, well you know....lol.

Now lets talk about another type of chin. Someone like Lamotta, Archie Moore, or another one of my favorites James Toney. These guys have great chins that were used to deflect, set up counters, etc. I think this is a much more impressive way of effective punch resistance. Marciano, if one watches tape, has some of these same skills, though not as on point as these three perhaps.

Having a great chin means being able to absorb punishment. Jake LaMotta being a perfect example. Or Ray Mercer. Or Marvin Hagler.

The ability to deflect or roll or set up counters is a different thing altogether.

That lies more in the realm of skills. An area in which the old timers never rated Rocky too highly. Despite the admirable work that Goldman did to bring him above the rudimentary level.

[ShoulderRoll]

- -Douglas and Lewis both good punchers, but after Big George tore him a new one, Evan Field record dropped to 18-10-2, 7 KOs, not a hard puncher.

Mike was smarter and ducked Big George.

Even still I would say that Holyfield hit harder than old Joe Walcott. And harder than old, blown up light heavyweight Archie Moore.

[TonyGe]

It would have been a massacre! Marciano openly ducked Sonny Liston, who chased him around the world looking for the fight. Everyone knows that Sonny was a mean SOB. Mike Tyson would've made Rocky Marciano piss himself! Realistically, Mike was too fast, too strong, and his defense was underrated. At 185lbs, Rocky is too small to keep Tyson off of him. Tyson by KO3.

Liston didn't even have a ranking when Marciano retired that's how far down the ladder he was. Not saying he would not have been a threat but there was no way they were going to fight when Rocky would have to give up more lucrative fights. There was no open ducking on his part. As far as Tyson goes he would KO Marciano. The size difference alone would be too much for Rocky. Then there is Tyson's hand speed and power..