Prime Rocky Marciano vs Prime Mike Tyson

[QueensburyRules]

lol this tale of the tape isnt right. Marciano does not have 22 inch thighs.

take these tale of the tapes like a grain of salt.

I got Rocky though. These guys are close in size (not that it matters, both beat men twice their size)

both have records with holes in it.

I actually think Marcianos record is a bit better though, for 1 he never did end up losing. and 2, at least the fighters he fought were active. Tysons 2 biggest wins were inactive fighters pulled off the couch on short notice for a pay day.

Tyson probably drops Rocky early, if they don't wave it off, rocky makes the 10 count and by round 6 starts landing more telling blows, Tysons starts falling apart once he realizes Marciano isn't intimidated by him.

- -Much stereotyping assumption.

Recall NFL great Earl Campbell measured 34" thighs. 22 is nothing unless you possess spaghetti legs.

And the notion that Tyson relied on intimidation. Any intimidation born of his results as Mike only 5-10 in stature with a squeaky lisp.

[billeau2]

- -Much stereotyping assumption.

Recall NFL great Earl Campbell measured 34" thighs. 22 is nothing unless you possess spaghetti legs.

And the notion that Tyson relied on intimidation. Any intimidation born of his results as Mike only 5-10 in stature with a squeaky lisp.

I was actually going to respond to that as well lol. What made Tyson fierce was the inability of an opponent to stop him from coming forwards. After a while, especially in the space of a round... If one has ever been in the ring with an opponent who you cannot stop from coming forwards, it is scary. My Karate Sensei fought like that and he was hell to deal with. You start to feel like the round is forever and that anything you throw is not doing anything... and then? it wears you out as you try to avoid being smacked lol.

I think Tyson measures up so well because his style and technique could potentially back up a great puncher, or boxer. But Marciano was imo similar to another Italian American fighter...Jake Lamotta. Both men could put their opponent on their heals and keep coming forwards when doing so. Tyson like Kid Blackey/Jack D his mentor on tape, could not fight well in retreat.

[ShoulderRoll]

Speed advantage: Tyson
Power advantage: Tyson
Better defense: Tyson
Better chin: Tyson
Size advantage: Tyson

I can't think of a single area where I would give the edge to Marciano. Even when it comes to their trainers that's basically a wash.

[billeau2]

Speed advantage: Tyson
Power advantage: Tyson
Better defense: Tyson
Better chin: Tyson
Size advantage: Tyson

I can't think of a single area where I would give the edge to Marciano. Even when it comes to their trainers that's basically a wash.

Well first of all... Tyson did not have a better chin, and Tyson, like Marciano lacked reach, so neither man had a tangible size advantage. For purposes of comparison lets use Buster Douglas who connected with his jab, using his size (reach) in the process.

Defense is also Sketchy: Marciano had better D than given credit for and Tyson could get very defensively sloppy when he stopped head movement after the first few rounds.

Now regarding power, certainly one punch power Tyson had the advantage... But if we are a little more circumspect we would look at how Holyfield, a fighter, whom like Marciano in some regards, depended on accumulation of punches, dealt Tyson such a blow. We also know that Marciano was heavy handed and had punches that did hurt opponents...though for purposes of comparison I would give Tyson that edge. With the caveat that precedent suggests Marciano had an opportunity to use accumulation like Holly did against Tyson.

And trainers? Goldman was a genius.

[ShoulderRoll]

Well first of all... Tyson did not have a better chin, and Tyson, like Marciano lacked reach, so neither man had a tangible size advantage. For purposes of comparison lets use Buster Douglas who connected with his jab, using his size (reach) in the process.

Defense is also Sketchy: Marciano had better D than given credit for and Tyson could get very defensively sloppy when he stopped head movement after the first few rounds.

Now regarding power, certainly one punch power Tyson had the advantage... But if we are a little more circumspect we would look at how Holyfield, a fighter, whom like Marciano in some regards, depended on accumulation of punches, dealt Tyson such a blow. We also know that Marciano was heavy handed and had punches that did hurt opponents...though for purposes of comparison I would give Tyson that edge. With the caveat that precedent suggests Marciano had an opportunity to use accumulation like Holly did against Tyson.

And trainers? Goldman was a genius.

Tyson absolutely had a better chin. He took tremendous punishment from big guys at their peak form in Douglas and Holyfield and Lennox Lewis before eventually going down. Rocky got dropped with single shots by old men, one of whom was a blown up light heavweight.

Defensively there is no comparison. Charlie Goldman did what he could with Marciano but he had a late start in the sport. Tyson at his best could slip, bob, and weave beautifully. And he would spring or pivot to the sides of his opponents to keep out of their direct line of fire.

Goldman was a genius but so was Cus D'Amato. Like I said when it comes to their cornermen that is basically a wash.

[Lomadeaux]

So everyone is counting the rock out aye?.

Because they're all BoxingScene children who've never been in the ring in their life.

[Lomadeaux]

Speed advantage: Tyson
Power advantage: Tyson
Better defense: Tyson
Better chin: Tyson
Size advantage: Tyson

I can't think of a single area where I would give the edge to Marciano. Even when it comes to their trainers that's basically a wash.

He has the advantage in the most important area.. The ability to overcome.
The thought Tyson would beat Marciano is absolutely laughable. Buster Douglas knocked him out... Holyfield beat him. What are you guys talking about?

[ShoulderRoll]

He has the advantage in the most important area.. The ability to overcome.
The thought Tyson would beat Marciano is absolutely laughable. Buster Douglas knocked him out... Holyfield beat him. What are you guys talking about?

Holyfield was better than Marciano. Clearly.

Buster Douglas was a bigger man than Tyson who always had talent just never put it all together before or after. And Mike's life was a mess going into that fight.

He still took a bunch of hellacious punches flush before finally succumbing. That's how good his chin was.

[billeau2]

Tyson absolutely had a better chin. He took tremendous punishment from big guys at their peak form in Douglas and Holyfield and Lennox Lewis before eventually going down. Rocky got dropped with single shots by old men, one of whom was a blown up light heavweight.

Defensively there is no comparison. Charlie Goldman did what he could with Marciano but he had a late start in the sport. Tyson at his best could slip, bob, and weave beautifully. And he would spring or pivot to the sides of his opponents to keep out of their direct line of fire.

Goldman was a genius but so was Cus D'Amato. Like I said when it comes to their cornermen that is basically a wash.

Bigger men does not equal harder punchers and going down is one thing, staying down is another. Marciano fought some of the premier punchers even if they were twilight.

Charlie Goldman did a lot more than that with Marciano to take him to such heights. Marciano was unique in the way he was taught, it allowed him to fight in a way that took advantage of his attributes. Similar to Armstrong for sure... Tyson did indeed have wonderful techniques and I do believe he matches head to head much better than his actual performance as a whole shows him to be as a fighter.

Defensively Tyson did not maintain his technique consistently. He would stop the bob weave and pivot. So for example when he fought Ruddock twice, the latter parts of those two fights he almost lost the fight and was reduced to slugging it out. Yes at his absolute best, early in fights pre-prison he did have wonderful defensive movement, but even then...he won quick!

Tyson when well disciplined was defensively strong but because these attributes faded with lack of training we don't know how steadfast he would be under the kind of pressure a guy like Marciano would bring. Frazier we know, by comparison, could bob and weave throughout a 15 round fight.

[QueensburyRules]

He has the advantage in the most important area.. The ability to overcome.
The thought Tyson would beat Marciano is absolutely laughable. Buster Douglas knocked him out... Holyfield beat him. What are you guys talking about?

- -You on the same experimental drugs Mike was on with a clown corner when he fought Buster who still needed the proverbial Dempsey long count to survive?

What grade you in this year?