The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[Ivich]

No Carlos Monzon? He retired undefeated in his last 81 fights on 13 years.

Top3 at160lbs, but never fought in any other weight class which hurts his standing P4P for me.That's why I have only 1 heavyweight,[Ali,] in my 20.

[Ivich]

So we can't take the words of boxing experts and opponents who did see them fight? That Ludacris. Ray Arcel trained Duran, who we all know to be an all time great. He also worked with Benny Leonard and was hard pressed to pick who was the greater fighter between the two. We should just disregard that information? We have film of Tunney and other fighters Harry Greb fought. Many of the guys he beat, he did so easier than Dempsey did. We should just disregard that and not rate him because their is no film? Nonsense. Should we disregard the great military generals in history because there of no film of their battles as well?

Arcel only worked with the come backing, washed up welterweight version of Leonard.After Duran beat Leonard, Arcel said Duran was the greatest fighter he ever trained.

[GhostofDempsey]

No Carlos Monzon? He retired undefeated in his last 81 fights on 13 years.

I've always found his legend to be greater than his resume. A padded record of mostly journeymen Argentinian fighters. The biggest names he defeated were on their way out and/or coming up in weight.

[JAB5239]

Arcel only worked with the come backing, washed up welterweight version of Leonard.After Duran beat Leonard, Arcel said Duran was the greatest fighter he ever trained.

I know Arcel only worked with Leonard at the tail end of his career. I think you're missing the point of what I was saying though.

[mrbig1]

I've always found his legend to be greater than his resume. A padded record of mostly journeymen Argentinian fighters. The biggest names he defeated were on their way out and/or coming up in weight.

you would have to be from that era to know that Monzon beat some tough fighters in his time. Most boxing people hold him in very high regard.

[Ivich]

I know Arcel only worked with Leonard at the tail end of his career. I think you're missing the point of what I was saying though.

Bottom line Arcel picked Duran as the greatest fighter he ever worked with.
How much gravitas one gives trainers and boxers opinions can vary greatly depending on the individual proffering his opinion eg Archie Moore named Durelle and Sheppard as the hardest punchers he fought.Charles, Satterfield and Marshall. Joe Louis stated the hardest he was hit was by Al Delaney.Would you agree with their picks?

[GhostofDempsey]

you would have to be from that era to know that Monzon beat some tough fighters in his time. Most boxing people hold him in very high regard.

Griffith, Napoles and Benvenuti were well passed their respective primes. Valdez was not a great fighter, nor did he ever beat one. Monzon was a good, gritty fighter, but he is highly regarded for his win/loss ratio and his MW title run, both of which were overrated IMO.

[Ivich]

Griffith, Napoles and Benvenuti were well passed their respective primes. Valdez was not a great fighter, nor did he ever beat one. Monzon was a good, gritty fighter, but he is highly regarded for his win/loss ratio and his MW title run, both of which were overrated IMO.

Griffith was the number 1 Ring ranked contender when Monzon defended against him and he would go on to beat **** Tiger.

[Willie Pep 229]

Arcel only worked with the come backing, washed up welterweight version of Leonard.After Duran beat Leonard, Arcel said Duran was the greatest fighter he ever trained.

Washed up is a bit harsh, no? No doubt Arcel never got to work with 1923 Leonard, but his post 'crash' comeback Leonard was 21-1-0.

No doubt most if not all were ham and eggers - but in the end he ran into a ATG WW champion in Jimmy Mcclarin. Had there been a lesser WW champion in the slot at that time Leonard would have prevailed and then we would be over stating his come back prowess instead of under stating it. Such is the trap of all history.

But I think 'washed up' is too harsh.

[JAB5239]

Bottom line Arcel picked Duran as the greatest fighter he ever worked with.
How much gravitas one gives trainers and boxers opinions can vary greatly depending on the individual proffering his opinion eg Archie Moore named Durelle and Sheppard as the hardest punchers he fought.Charles, Satterfield and Marshall. Joe Louis stated the hardest he was hit was by Al Delaney.Would you agree with their picks?

I'm not sure how that is the bottom line when it wasn't even the point being made. As far as the opinions of boxers and trainers from bye gone eras's......I'll certainly take their opinions on men we haven't seen fight over the opinion of any person who says they must not have been that good if there is no film.