Manny Pacqiuao a Top 25 all time great??

[Walt Liquor]

this is just IMO so from your list above based on boxing achievements i would rank Pacquiao ahead of
Greb
Langford
Charles
Moore
Wilde
Monzon
Pep
Whitaker
Gans
B.Leonard
R.Leonard
Gavilan
Fitzsimmons
Griffith
Walker
Tunney
Jofre
Napoles
Ketchel
McLarnin
Duran
Walcott
Ross

8 world titles which could be 9 or more by the time he is finished in the sport, quality of opponents and his losing only one fight in 12yrs is really remarkable even in comparison to the great boxers listed above.

HOLY SHI T BALLS!!!!

My boxingscene day is gonna get good if this is the first post I see!

[Spartacus Sully]

yeah, exactly. duran had that much fight, so did chavez, but it still doesn't take away my point.

top fighters fight 3 times a year nowadays. they are pretty much constricted to that many fights.

i just find it unfair to subject fighters nowadays to a ridiculously impossible standards when the sport has changed so much.

pacquiao with his 50++ fights at this point in his career is considered a high number of fights nowadays.

its not really that cut and dry when assessing fighters all time.

i myself don't have an atg list, as i was not there when the whole thing unfolds as one poster said here. but lets be subjective on the matter.

im sure if the top fighters wanted to fight more they could. laziness and money are no excuse for not fighting as much as they did in the past.

today they dont want to risk loosing a fight with some one that isnt worth the money so they dont take any fight they can get they only take the big money fights, fighters of yester year didnt care if they were risking a chance at loosing a match they just wanted to fight.

[Walt Liquor]

with all due respect you have not answered my question. regardless of how this sport has evolved and moved on over the last 100yrs or so, what Pacquiao has achieved is the equivalent of Jimmy Wilde moving through the weights in 1914 beating such fighters as Abe Atell, Johnny Kilbane, Packey McFarland, Battling Nelson & Sam Langford. with Harry Greb (F.Mayweather) then refusing to accept the challenge from Wilde. you just cannot comprehend Jimmy Wilde being able to achieve such an incredible feat yet that is what Manny Pacquiao has achieved and more.

[Walt Liquor]

Pacquiao world champion 112-154 =42lbs

Duran world champion 135-165 = 30lbs

Let's get the facts correct here.

what weight class is 165?

[Ryannn]

im sure if the top fighters wanted to fight more they could. laziness and money are no excuse for not fighting as much as they did in the past.

today they dont want to risk loosing a fight with some one that isnt worth the money so they dont take any fight they can get they only take the big money fights, fighters of yester year didnt care if they were risking a chance at loosing a match they just wanted to fight.

that may be true,

but it has become the norm. that's how it is nowadays. top fighters don't fight once month anymore.

its absolutely ridiculous to say guys like pacquiao has to have 100 fights to even be mentioned with boxers from the past, or to unify all belts for their title to count.

that is why making an all time list is ball crushingly hard. you don't just have to know what happened, you have to take into account the changes in the eras.

[Spartacus Sully]

that may be true,

but it has become the norm. that's how it is nowadays. top fighters don't fight once month anymore.

its absolutely ridiculous to say guys like pacquiao has to have 100 fights to even be mentioned with boxers from the past, or to unify all belts for their title to count.

that is why making an all time list is ball crushingly hard. you don't just have to know what happened, you have to take into account the changes in the eras.

and lets say pac did fight 100+ times would he have less then 4 losses or more then 100 kos?

it really dosnt matter that he fought 134 times what matters is that he fought 134 times and only lost 4 times.

[pacquia0]

Yes.

#1 112lbs Sasakul
#3 122lbs Ledwaba. The #1 guy was MAB.
#1 126lbs MAB, JMM
#1 130lbs JMM, Top 5 Morales and MAB
#2 135lbs Diaz
#1 140lbs Hatton
#2 147lbs Cotto, Top 5 Clottey and Mosley(if he wins)

Hes fought the best at every weight class so he cannot be accused of paper titles. His title at 154lbs is the only one which is paper. Margarito is still a good win though considering he was the #1 WW before his loss to Mosley. At 122lbs he might as well be considered a true champ as MAB moved up and pac beat him and the #2 guy Ayala lost in his next fight. At 135lbs the best fighter was Juan Diaz. However david Diaz was Top rank making the fight easier to make and after beating Diaz, De La Hoya called Pac out. Most thought Pac had no chance in that fight. At 147lbs in 2009 the top 5 guys were Cotto, Clottey, Mosley and Margarito.

Hes easily top 25 and probably top 5.

[Barn]

Yes.

#1 112lbs Sasakul
#3 122lbs Ledwaba. The #1 guy was MAB.
#1 126lbs MAB, JMM
#1 130lbs JMM, Top 5 Morales and MAB
#2 135lbs Diaz
#1 140lbs Hatton
#2 147lbs Cotto, Top 5 Clottey and Mosley(if he wins)

Hes fought the best at every weight class so he cannot be accused of paper titles. His title at 154lbs is the only one which is paper. Margarito is still a good win though considering he was the #1 WW before his loss to Mosley. At 122lbs he might as well be considered a true champ as MAB moved up and pac beat him and the #2 guy Ayala lost in his next fight. At 135lbs the best fighter was Juan Diaz. However david Diaz was Top rank making the fight easier to make and after beating Diaz, De La Hoya called Pac out. Most thought Pac had no chance in that fight. At 147lbs in 2009 the top 5 guys were Cotto, Clottey, Mosley and Margarito.

Hes easily top 25 and probably top 5.

You owe me a new pair of underwear I think I just pissed myself.

[IronDanHamza]

Yes.

#1 112lbs Sasakul
#3 122lbs Ledwaba. The #1 guy was MAB.
#1 126lbs MAB, JMM
#1 130lbs JMM, Top 5 Morales and MAB
#2 135lbs Diaz
#1 140lbs Hatton
#2 147lbs Cotto, Top 5 Clottey and Mosley(if he wins)

Hes fought the best at every weight class so he cannot be accused of paper titles. His title at 154lbs is the only one which is paper. Margarito is still a good win though considering he was the #1 WW before his loss to Mosley. At 122lbs he might as well be considered a true champ as MAB moved up and pac beat him and the #2 guy Ayala lost in his next fight. At 135lbs the best fighter was Juan Diaz. However david Diaz was Top rank making the fight easier to make and after beating Diaz, De La Hoya called Pac out. Most thought Pac had no chance in that fight. At 147lbs in 2009 the top 5 guys were Cotto, Clottey, Mosley and Margarito.

Hes easily top 25 and probably top 5.

How is that? He only has 4 Lineal Titles out of 8 weight classes.

He didn't get THE best at 122, 135, 147 or 154.

Regardless to the fact Barrera once was the man at 122, he didn't fight him there thus didn't fight the best there.

In 2009 they were. But, he didn't fight them all in 2009, did he?

[IronDanHamza]

It seems alot of people are using the 'others era's has more fights' thus it isn't fair.

That's right, it isn't fair, but unfortunately, that's just how it is. If Harry Greb has hundreds of wins beating numerous HOF'ers then how is Pacqiauo going to be ranked above him? There's just no way.

And even then, even the people without hundreds of fights they are still plenty of fighters who have better resume's than Pacqiauo. Take Ray Leonard for example, very difficult to argue Pacqiuao is greater than Ray Leonard.

As it stand's, I just can't see how he is Top 25. I can't see it.