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Manny Pacqiuao a Top 25 all time great??

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    #31
    Originally posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
    no, i was pointing out the weight they started and the weight of their last bout.

    the point is to show the range of weights they fought at i dont really care what titles they won and at what weights as the opposition they fought to get the titles is much more important.

    i mean duran fought ken buchannan or something 43-1-0 for his first title while paciano fought saschkul or something at 33-1-0 for his first title
    IMO if the Mayweather fight does not materialize within the next 2yrs Pacquiao will finish his career off fighting for the 165lb title and most likely succeed in winning it.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Quarry View Post
      IMO if the Mayweather fight does not materialize within the next 2yrs Pacquiao will finish his career off fighting for the 165lb title and most likely succeed in winning it.
      good for him, come back to this thread when it happens.

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        #33
        Bob Arum said that Manny is the greatest fighter he has ever seen, greater then Ali. Obviouslly, Arum is Manny's current promoter and therefore makes more money off of his fights then any other fighter, so he has a a pretty good financial incentive to proclaim Manny to be the greatest.

        He is definitely an all time great right now, the question is where does he rank? His record is 52(38 KOs)-3-2. His record is actually somewhat deceiving, because he only lost 1 fight very close fight to Morales (115-113 on all 3 scorecards) since turning 21, and he knocked Morales out in 2 rematches. He has held belts in 8 different weight divisions. He has consistently fough the best fighters in every weight class he has competed in except for 135 (only had 1 fight there). He went a combined 5-1-1 against the 3 best fighters his size of his generation (Morales, Barrera, and Marquez) He destroyed Hatton to win Ring 140 pound title. Completely dominated Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, and De La Hoya at 147/150 and arguably won every round against those guys. And he is one of the most exciting fighters of his generation as well always going for the KO.

        He is great, there can be no debate. How great is he though?

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          #34
          Originally posted by nullifygirls View Post
          Bob Arum said that Manny is the greatest fighter he has ever seen, greater then Ali. Obviouslly, Arum is Manny's current promoter and therefore makes more money off of his fights then any other fighter, so he has a a pretty good financial incentive to proclaim Manny to be the greatest.

          He is definitely an all time great right now, the question is where does he rank? His record is 52(38 KOs)-3-2. His record is actually somewhat deceiving, because he only lost 1 fight very close fight to Morales (115-113 on all 3 scorecards) since turning 21, and he knocked Morales out in 2 rematches. He has held belts in 8 different weight divisions. He has consistently fough the best fighters in every weight class he has competed in except for 135 (only had 1 fight there). He went a combined 5-1-1 against the 3 best fighters his size of his generation (Morales, Barrera, and Marquez) He destroyed Hatton to win Ring 140 pound title. Completely dominated Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, and De La Hoya at 147/150 and arguably won every round against those guys. And he is one of the most exciting fighters of his generation as well always going for the KO.

          He is great, there can be no debate. How great is he though?
          its been agreed here that he is at least in the top 50.

          ranking a currently fighting fighter is like asking someone if they're happy....well im happy now but who knows tomorrow.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Quarry View Post
            IMO if the Mayweather fight does not materialize within the next 2yrs Pacquiao will finish his career off fighting for the 165lb title and most likely succeed in winning it.
            wtf is wrong wit you...

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              #36
              Originally posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
              Manny pacquiao 52(38 ko)-3-2

              jimmy wilde 134(100 ko)-4-2

              ........
              not saying pacquiao is greater than wilde...

              but comparing records from different eras is a bad way of assessing how a fighter should be ranked.

              if wilde was in this era, would he have 100++ fights in his career? doubt it.

              its pretty unfair that we measure greatness by a standard that cannot be achieved by today's boxer, no matter how great they are.

              now on the topic, i think it would be pretty much premature to rank pacquiao right now. wait till he's retired.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Quarry View Post
                this is just IMO so from your list above based on boxing achievements i would rank Pacquiao ahead of
                Greb
                Langford
                Charles
                Moore
                Wilde
                Monzon
                Pep
                Whitaker
                Gans
                B.Leonard
                R.Leonard
                Gavilan
                Fitzsimmons
                Griffith
                Walker
                Tunney
                Jofre
                Napoles
                Ketchel
                McLarnin
                Duran
                Walcott
                Ross

                8 world titles which could be 9 or more by the time he is finished in the sport, quality of opponents and his losing only one fight in 12yrs is really remarkable even in comparison to the great boxers listed above.
                [IMG]//i336.***********.com/albums/n359/SasukeAndGogeta/emote_wut.gif[/IMG]

                Let's break down the math. Pacquiao's won 8 "titles", out of 68 "titles" that exist between the four sanctioning bodies among the 17 weight classes. That comes out to about 12% of the belts there are to win.

                To pick an example from above: Bob Fitzsimmons, in a far tougher era, held the undisputed middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight championships- 37% of the titles that existed in the world at that time. To put it another way, Fitzsimmons held the modern equivalent of 12 different belts.

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Ryannn View Post
                  not saying pacquiao is greater than wilde...

                  but comparing records from different eras is a bad way of assessing how a fighter should be ranked.

                  if wilde was in this era, would he have 100++ fights in his career? doubt it.

                  its pretty unfair that we measure greatness by a standard that cannot be achieved by today's boxer, no matter how great they are.

                  now on the topic, i think it would be pretty much premature to rank pacquiao right now. wait till he's retired.
                  duran had 100+ i see no reason why wilde wouldnt....but mroe so its that he had 100+ with only 4 losses. if manny had 100+ fights i doubt he have only 4 losses.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by poet682006 View Post
                    I really don't like giving exact rankings to guys who are still in their primes (which I think Manny is). He's an ATG for sure but too much can happen still in his career to lock down an exact place on the lists.....let's wait until he slides to past-it status before starting to ****er over where he belongs.

                    Poet



                    once again, i'm ashamed about being in agreement with this guy
                    but he's right on with this one.


                    history is what we make it out to be after it has passed.
                    it's inherently subjective


                    we need time to develop subjectivity on pacquiao
                    right now we're too objective because we're watching his fights in the contemporary

                    to rate him historically, in terms of greatness in historical context, we must allow him to become history first.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Spartacus Sully View Post
                      duran had 100+ i see no reason why wilde wouldnt....but mroe so its that he had 100+ with only 4 losses. if manny had 100+ fights i doubt he have only 4 losses.
                      yeah, exactly. duran had that much fight, so did chavez, but it still doesn't take away my point.

                      top fighters fight 3 times a year nowadays. they are pretty much constricted to that many fights.

                      i just find it unfair to subject fighters nowadays to a ridiculously impossible standards when the sport has changed so much.

                      pacquiao with his 50++ fights at this point in his career is considered a high number of fights nowadays.

                      its not really that cut and dry when assessing fighters all time.

                      i myself don't have an atg list, as i was not there when the whole thing unfolds as one poster said here. but lets be subjective on the matter.

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