Originally posted by Spartacus Sully
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Manny Pacqiuao a Top 25 all time great??
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Bob Arum said that Manny is the greatest fighter he has ever seen, greater then Ali. Obviouslly, Arum is Manny's current promoter and therefore makes more money off of his fights then any other fighter, so he has a a pretty good financial incentive to proclaim Manny to be the greatest.
He is definitely an all time great right now, the question is where does he rank? His record is 52(38 KOs)-3-2. His record is actually somewhat deceiving, because he only lost 1 fight very close fight to Morales (115-113 on all 3 scorecards) since turning 21, and he knocked Morales out in 2 rematches. He has held belts in 8 different weight divisions. He has consistently fough the best fighters in every weight class he has competed in except for 135 (only had 1 fight there). He went a combined 5-1-1 against the 3 best fighters his size of his generation (Morales, Barrera, and Marquez) He destroyed Hatton to win Ring 140 pound title. Completely dominated Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, and De La Hoya at 147/150 and arguably won every round against those guys. And he is one of the most exciting fighters of his generation as well always going for the KO.
He is great, there can be no debate. How great is he though?
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Originally posted by nullifygirls View PostBob Arum said that Manny is the greatest fighter he has ever seen, greater then Ali. Obviouslly, Arum is Manny's current promoter and therefore makes more money off of his fights then any other fighter, so he has a a pretty good financial incentive to proclaim Manny to be the greatest.
He is definitely an all time great right now, the question is where does he rank? His record is 52(38 KOs)-3-2. His record is actually somewhat deceiving, because he only lost 1 fight very close fight to Morales (115-113 on all 3 scorecards) since turning 21, and he knocked Morales out in 2 rematches. He has held belts in 8 different weight divisions. He has consistently fough the best fighters in every weight class he has competed in except for 135 (only had 1 fight there). He went a combined 5-1-1 against the 3 best fighters his size of his generation (Morales, Barrera, and Marquez) He destroyed Hatton to win Ring 140 pound title. Completely dominated Cotto, Margarito, Clottey, and De La Hoya at 147/150 and arguably won every round against those guys. And he is one of the most exciting fighters of his generation as well always going for the KO.
He is great, there can be no debate. How great is he though?
ranking a currently fighting fighter is like asking someone if they're happy....well im happy now but who knows tomorrow.
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Originally posted by Spartacus Sully View PostManny pacquiao 52(38 ko)-3-2
jimmy wilde 134(100 ko)-4-2
........
but comparing records from different eras is a bad way of assessing how a fighter should be ranked.
if wilde was in this era, would he have 100++ fights in his career? doubt it.
its pretty unfair that we measure greatness by a standard that cannot be achieved by today's boxer, no matter how great they are.
now on the topic, i think it would be pretty much premature to rank pacquiao right now. wait till he's retired.
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Originally posted by Quarry View Postthis is just IMO so from your list above based on boxing achievements i would rank Pacquiao ahead of
Greb
Langford
Charles
Moore
Wilde
Monzon
Pep
Whitaker
Gans
B.Leonard
R.Leonard
Gavilan
Fitzsimmons
Griffith
Walker
Tunney
Jofre
Napoles
Ketchel
McLarnin
Duran
Walcott
Ross
8 world titles which could be 9 or more by the time he is finished in the sport, quality of opponents and his losing only one fight in 12yrs is really remarkable even in comparison to the great boxers listed above.
Let's break down the math. Pacquiao's won 8 "titles", out of 68 "titles" that exist between the four sanctioning bodies among the 17 weight classes. That comes out to about 12% of the belts there are to win.
To pick an example from above: Bob Fitzsimmons, in a far tougher era, held the undisputed middleweight, light heavyweight, and heavyweight championships- 37% of the titles that existed in the world at that time. To put it another way, Fitzsimmons held the modern equivalent of 12 different belts.
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Originally posted by Ryannn View Postnot saying pacquiao is greater than wilde...
but comparing records from different eras is a bad way of assessing how a fighter should be ranked.
if wilde was in this era, would he have 100++ fights in his career? doubt it.
its pretty unfair that we measure greatness by a standard that cannot be achieved by today's boxer, no matter how great they are.
now on the topic, i think it would be pretty much premature to rank pacquiao right now. wait till he's retired.
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Originally posted by poet682006 View PostI really don't like giving exact rankings to guys who are still in their primes (which I think Manny is). He's an ATG for sure but too much can happen still in his career to lock down an exact place on the lists.....let's wait until he slides to past-it status before starting to ****er over where he belongs.
Poet
once again, i'm ashamed about being in agreement with this guy
but he's right on with this one.
history is what we make it out to be after it has passed.
it's inherently subjective
we need time to develop subjectivity on pacquiao
right now we're too objective because we're watching his fights in the contemporary
to rate him historically, in terms of greatness in historical context, we must allow him to become history first.
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Originally posted by Spartacus Sully View Postduran had 100+ i see no reason why wilde wouldnt....but mroe so its that he had 100+ with only 4 losses. if manny had 100+ fights i doubt he have only 4 losses.
top fighters fight 3 times a year nowadays. they are pretty much constricted to that many fights.
i just find it unfair to subject fighters nowadays to a ridiculously impossible standards when the sport has changed so much.
pacquiao with his 50++ fights at this point in his career is considered a high number of fights nowadays.
its not really that cut and dry when assessing fighters all time.
i myself don't have an atg list, as i was not there when the whole thing unfolds as one poster said here. but lets be subjective on the matter.
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