Manny Pacqiuao a Top 25 all time great??

[StarshipTrooper]

Thank you gentleman for dealing with our resident 'tards (such Trojanman) quite nicely! Now let's see who I can pass out the green to

PS. Damn that "spread it around" BS

Poet

[JAB5239]

lol got news for you that is modern boxing NOBODY fights 10x a year like Barney Ross or Sugar Ray Robinson. That is why if you had common sense you would realize that its dumb to compare them.

And if you had a common sense you would realize that in "modern" boxing they CHOOSE not to fight as often. Why should the greatness of fighters be looked at differently because of the choices THEY make? Why should they get more credit for watered down titles and more divisions that make it possible for fighters like David Diaz to be called the champion of the world?

[New England]

Also keeps a lot of not so gifted people alive that would not even be alive in tougher survival situations and they pass on their genetics. I think that may be one of the reasons there are more injuries and concussions in sports now days.

lol that sounds like a bit of a reach

environment would likely be a determining factor in survival, not athletic quality

certainly stronger genetic specimens would be more likely to survive and pass on genes, but the entirety of the genepool would be reduced, gifted people included


greb and flowers are great examples




are you saying that the quality athletic population in the world is digressing?
because i heartily disagree.

[New England]

He did beat some good guys to get where he was. But Im sure peeps will throw dirt on Judah and Gatti to make their argument. I can say this. He did the better than most with the skill set he had. To me his skills are similar to Froch who is also an over achiever.

The key is Bruce was way ahead of his time. Dont get me wrong their are many boxers who were ahead of their time too. You have fighters like SRR, Pep, and Locche who transend their time period but then you have boxers who I feel were dominnt only for their time period like Louis, Tyson and Greb.

this is what it sounds like when you "learn" about boxing exclusively through outlets like the boxingscene forum

[SCtrojansbaby]

And if you had a common sense you would realize that in "modern" boxing they CHOOSE not to fight as often. Why should the greatness of fighters be looked at differently because of the choices THEY make? Why should they get more credit for watered down titles and more divisions that make it possible for fighters like David Diaz to be called the champion of the world?

LOL so you think if Ray Robinson fought today he would be the only guy in the sport choosing to fight 10x a year and if Pacquiao fought back then he would be the only guy fighting 2x a year?

It is the sport of boxing today they fight less, it was the sport back then fight more. That is why its dumb to compare 2 completely different eras.

As for non heavyweight being the same caliber of athlete just cause of the weight limit that is simply wrong. Is hall of fame basketball player Dave Bing the same caliber of athlete as John Wall, both are 6'3 180... Hell no they aren't.

Its just ignorant to think that after 60 years the level of athleticism among top athletes is not going to have a huge difference.

[StarshipTrooper]

LOL so you think if Ray Robinson fought today he would be the only guy in the sport choosing to fight 10x a year and if Pacquiao fought back then he would be the only guy fighting 2x a year?

It is the sport of boxing today they fight less, it was the sport back then fight more. That is why its dumb to compare 2 completely different eras.

As for non heavyweight being the same caliber of athlete just cause of the weight limit that is simply wrong. Is hall of fame basketball player Dave Bing the same caliber of athlete as John Wall, both are 6'3 180... Hell no they aren't.

Its just ignorant to think that after 60 years the level of athleticism among top athletes is not going to have a huge difference.

JAB has explained it to you before. That's what makes you a freaking ******: Now matter how often something is explained to you, no matter how **** 'N Jane they make it for your limited comprehension skills, you STILL don't get it. An example of a point that you're incapable of comprehending: In practically all the major sports skill *****s athleticism. But you're so hung up on "athleticism" that you're incapable of comprehending that.

Poet

[GJC]

It is the sport of boxing today they fight less, it was the sport back then fight more. That is why its dumb to compare 2 completely different eras.

If you do something more don't you think you improve at it? Do you not think you learn more from adversity and losses than from careful match making to preserve the precious 0?

[Holtol]

lol that sounds like a bit of a reach

environment would likely be a determining factor in survival, not athletic quality

certainly stronger genetic specimens would be more likely to survive and pass on genes, but the entirety of the genepool would be reduced, gifted people included


greb and flowers are great examples




are you saying that the quality athletic population in the world is digressing?
because i heartily disagree.

The world demands almost nothing out of a person to survive and pass on their genes. People with physical and mental problems can easily survive. Things were not allways like that. I think as long as it requires almost nothing to reach breeding age people will become less and less able to survive in more difficult type of enviroments.

[SCtrojansbaby]

If you do something more don't you think you improve at it? Do you not think you learn more from adversity and losses than from careful match making to preserve the precious 0?

They fought that much because they had to. Why do you think Ali was basically the guy that set the standard as far as 2-3 fights per year? He and Don King realized that as the sports top attraction he could make much more fighting 2-3x a year with months of build up for every fight. As opposed to fighting every month.

Guys today have 2 month+ training camps for fights preparing so they can be at there best each and every fight something that simply was not possible back then.

[crold1]

They fought that much because they had to. Why do you think Ali was basically the guy that set the standard as far as 2-3 fights per year? He and Don King realized that as the sports top attraction he could make much more fighting 2-3x a year with months of build up for every fight. As opposed to fighting every month.

Guys today have 2 month+ training camps for fights preparing so they can be at there best each and every fight something that simply was not possible back then.

You really have no clue what you're talking about.

At all.

Ali worked with King on certain events, Arum on others. Beyond that, most top Heavyweights have historically fought less. That's been the standard for most of history. Ali didn't set anything. Johnson, Dempsey, Marciano...none fought 10 a year. The wear was too much and the purses too good to need that many fights. Ali's decade in the 70s was high on activity with 4 fights each in 75 and 76 (after his association with King started). He went to two fights in 77 and 78 when he was generally shot.

When Robinson aged and could command top dollar (after his first retirement), he fought less too for many years. If fighters were paid their real value, instead of the inflated HBO prices paid out too often to guys who can't fill a flea market, you'd see more club shows featuring 'that guy I saw on HBO.'