Why do people still put Joe Louis as the best HW with his outdated and poor mechanics?

[them_apples]

Is it some sentimental nationalism that makes everyone compelled to mention his name ? He has a weak posture that is completely outdated in boxing, yet he's still revered as the best or second best heavyweight of all time. His bag work looks completely amateurish by todays standards. So if his mechanics aged poorly, why are we to assume that he as a fighter aged well??

He couldn't have fought that crouched way against modern fighters. No way. Jose

Not everything is bad ofc, but if you'r fundamental stance is ****ty, nothing else matters. He doesn't have any solid core and he's easy to hit for a modern professional fighter (unlike the bozos he fought). His speed is mediocre at best. Not even that would compensate.

explain to me why it wouldn't work? You won't be able to I promise.

[them_apples]

Agreed. Joe Louis low guard, limed or no head movement, and slow and predictable shuffling feet spelled trouble and defeat in his times v. the best boxers he faced and they had less weight and height and reach than he did. Hmmmm.... He was could be clinched and man handled too.

I don't judge a man out of his era, but theses flaws are there and can be seen on film.

I could poke holes in this entire post, as it is not true.

[Willie Pep 229]

Bart Starr lead the Green Bay Packers to five NFL Championsips in seven years.

Starr couldn't play in the NFL today. Does that make him any less great?

This nonsense of matching old timers against modern fighters is not history. You should take this silly magic eye of yours over to Fantasy Fights. You can strut around showing everyone what an expert you are.

This is a history forum, and while you might believe you're writing history, you're not.

[Willow The Wisp]

I could poke holes in this entire post, as it is not true.

I agree with them apples about this. I know "an expert midway through his education" when I see one. We're all that I suppose, but some have taken the matrix pill already while others reveal through their posting that they are still waiting in line for theirs. Even while being self indulgent in their resistance. Boxing is no modern craft. Comming to an understanding of Joe Louis and his understanding of distance and positioning via Jack Blackburn's tutoring is a fine place to move up. More to boxing than overstated jumping around. Keep adding to what you believe you know. Don't stop short. Never take yourself too seriously. Be open to what the old trainers have to say. You seekers haven't come this far only to close up now.

[Willow The Wisp]

Bart Starr lead the Green Bay Packers to five NFL Championsips in seven years.

Starr couldn't play in the NFL today. Does that make him any less great?

This nonsense of matching old timers against modern fighters is not history. You should take this silly magic eye of yours over to Fantasy Fights. You can strut around showing everyone what an expert you are.

This is a history forum, and while you might believe you're writing history, you're not.

Boxing is a very very different style development timeline than all modern team sports are. The comparison doesn't work. We've been over this before.

[BKM-]

Bart Starr lead the Green Bay Packers to five NFL Championsips in seven years.

Starr couldn't play in the NFL today. Does that make him any less great?

This nonsense of matching old timers against modern fighters is not history. You should take this silly magic eye of yours over to Fantasy Fights. You can strut around showing everyone what an expert you are.

This is a history forum, and while you might believe you're writing history, you're not.

I agree with you, which is why I still rank HW's based on greatness they achieved in their own time, otherwise I wouldn't rank Louis at all because I don't give him high odds in H2H matchups against the top HW's in my list.

[them_apples]

Is it some sentimental nationalism that makes everyone compelled to mention his name ? He has a weak posture that is completely outdated in boxing, yet he's still revered as the best or second best heavyweight of all time. His bag work looks completely amateurish by todays standards. So if his mechanics aged poorly, why are we to assume that he as a fighter aged well??

He couldn't have fought that crouched way against modern fighters. No way. Jose

Not everything is bad ofc, but if you'r fundamental stance is ****ty, nothing else matters. He doesn't have any solid core and he's easy to hit for a modern professional fighter (unlike the bozos he fought). His speed is mediocre at best. Not even that would compensate.

How is his bag work amateurish? The fools today hit the bag wrong, you can't land proper combinations on a bag because of how it is shaped. It's actually a tool to build strength and punching muscles, not a tool to learn combinations on. You should throw combinations in shadow boxing or a double end bag, where nothing is impeding your technique. A round cylinder object is not ideal to practice combos for a human physique. Especially considering that punches only really hurt if you don't see them coming (brace/move).

Here we are today, every clown in boxing today doesn't know how to use a heavy bag outside of Mayweather (who hits it like Joe Louis, methodical and in single digits) but of course one of the best boxers in the contemporary era does it all wrong as well I suppose right?

flashy combos on a bag is not modern advancement, its pointless and serves to promote the new generation of professional "trainers" rather than fighters who enjoy the concept of having a camera on them while training. the other joke is handpad routines. Not only did they evolve into this pointless regiment but it actually makes boxers worse !

[Pugilist89]

How is his bag work amateurish?

It's wooden

[Anthony342]

Well, to win. Which he did. And to get people born after he died to create message board posts about him on their smartphones. It's a fair anawer. The truths are embedded. They being, that his stuff worked and worked great. Film connoisseurs can tell me who wins tonight between Ajagba and Shaw. Plenty of youtube on both. That's an easy way to test our film wisdom powers.

The answer is pretty well explained by the rest of you. Because he dominated his era. Dr. Z mentioned not judging a fighter out of their era. Well, outside of his era Louis was pretty dominant as well, only losing to Ezzard Charles in his first fight in 2 years in his comeback career by UD 15 and then didn't lose again until Marciano and then retired. So the answer is because he won. I mean, who did he really struggle against? Walcott? Knocked him out in a rematch. Ditto for Schmeling. By the Marciano fight he was done. I mean, if you wanna rank someone ahead of him, go ahead. Plenty of people have Ali ahead of Louis, which is fine. Then you have the first guy to win the lineal heavyweight title 3 times as opposed to the one who held it once, but held it the longest.

Point is, you don't see too many people criticizing guys in other sports for their technique if they win. I mean, who cares about someone's batting stance, throwing motion or a bowler's approach if they win, especially if they're dominant. The only complaints I've heard about anyone dominant in other sports might be what they did outside of the sport. Like it doesn't really matter about Jason Belmonte not putting his fingers in the bowling ball or throwing it with 2 hands because he's won the most major tournaments and doesn't have any controversies off the lanes. And nobody cared about Darryl Strawberry's weird batting stance because he played well and won. But they did care about his drug use. With Louis, it was more about him living up to a standard outside the ring after Jack Johnson. With Ali, he was not known for being the best technically, but still won because he was athletic enough to get away with it, but of course, there was the controversy with the draft and all the wives. See what I mean? It's like former Raiders owner Al Davis said "Just win, baby."

[them_apples]

It's wooden

and that would be the frame rate, I've been posting upscaled footage lately. no human moves like they do in old footage, and that is because its a low frame rate with doubles added to allow for 24 fps. he uses a bag exactly what it was intended for, to develop your punching muscles on.