Why do people rate Canelo's resume so high, even relative to GGG's?

[Boxing_1013]

Boxing1013 created a thread mis-quoting Steve Weisfeld

Boxing1013 attempted to remove defence, ring generalship, and effective aggression, as scoring criteria..... to justify why he thinks Golovkin beat Canelo in their rematch

but.....

Boxing1013 had NO IDEA that Steve Weisfeld was AN OFFICIAL JUDGE at the Canelo/Golovkin rematch..... and Weisfeld scored that fight for Canelo looool

//krikya360.com/forums/s...d.php?t=818903

Bro lol...we've been over this...all I was doing was honestly trying to help you to show you what judges are actually doing when they score fights...you were going on and on in a thread about it...and it was just apparent to me that you didn't really know what was going on.

The other 'criteria' definitely matters...but as Weisfeld said, the only thing they are actively scoring is landed/clean/effective punches...I'm honestly surprised anyone would factor anything else in to what they score.

The other stuff is nice, but only insofar as it helps you to land punches...that's what the game is all about...also one could argue that a guy who negates his opponent from even throwing punches has a better defense than a fighter who avoids more...if your guy isn't even trying to throw, you probably have a tight defense?

It's stuff like that where scoring the frivolous stuff such as who has nicer trunks and who you think is a cooler guy...I mean that's just not boxing...all it is, is who is scoring shots...that's what Weisfeld says all the judges are looking at as well...just was trying to help ya out.

Not really gonna co-sign people trying to muddy the waters about how to score a fight just to try and find some way to have their guy winning ya know...just have no real interest in that...1/20 fights that I watch are genuine 'could go either way' type fights...and I don't think either Canelo-GGG fight was one of those...they were both clear imo for GGG...he just took too many clear rounds and Canelo found it hard to get clear rounds against him because GGG is always scoring with his volume/jab/workrate every round.

Also judges, especially in Vegas, especially in Canelo fights, I mean they know what their job is...Canelo is the money man, so if a round is close to swing to him, it often will...I have no real issue with it, he makes a lot of people other than himself a lot of money in boxing...he is the king.

Most rounds at the top level, when a fight goes 12, are close enough... a judge can get the result they want...I'm not, nor was I ever co-signing Weisfeld's card, or any other judges' card in any fight...again, they know their jobs, and that is often time to make sure the house fighter/promising prospect comes through the fight...I was just helping ya out as far as what he says he and all other judges, according to him, actually score in fights.

[aboutfkntime]

True...some similarities there...Mosley was at a not ideal weight...so was Vanes...Mosley was pretty shot...Vanes was inactive...Mosley was better than Vanes at his peak, that we can probably all agree on...I do think Vanes looked fine in there...I remember watching a lot of him dating back to his Lara fights...and I think the weight increase affected his chances more than the inactivity.

But I just liked the way in which GGG got rid of Vanes...and Canelo going 12 rounds with Mosley just was unimpressive to me...I have always had Spence around top 5 pfp...not necessarily based on him having tons of top names on his resume...but the guys he did have, he had stopped and done so impressively imo...

He always seems to excel based on expectations...and GGG always did the same for me as well...Spence's most recent fight with Mikey was a little underwhelming to me since he couldn't get the stoppage...but he still clearly dominated that one.

All I can say there I guess is if Canelo stopped Vanes in those same circumstances...and GGG went 12 with Mosley in those circumstances...I would rate that win better for Canelo.

not really, they have different styles

how the hell does Golovkin " excel based on expectations " ?

he is a heavy-handed pressure fighter, who promised to fight the best..... and yet other than Jacobs, who he was forced to fight, and barely sc****d past..... he only selects made-to-order, lower-level, opponents who will be "available"

[R-Hand Southpaw]

Serious question/thread...just never really understood the hype on Canelo's and hate on GGG's.

Even without the two GGG-Canelo fights with each other...let's just look at some names:

Canelo's good wins - Trout (never scored/watched it all), Lara (I had Canelo 7-5), Jacobs (7-5), Smith (good KO), Cotto (shot and at a higher than best weight...but good win), Kirkland (KO), Angulo (KO), Fielding (KO).

Canelo's OK wins - Lopez, Cintron, Chavez, Mosley, Baldomir, Khan.

GGG's good wins (besides Jacobs all KOs) - Jacobs (8-4 imo), Murray, Brook, Lemieux, Monroe, Geale, Macklin, Proksa, Ouma, Stevens, Vanes.

GGG's OK wins (all KOs) - Rosado, Adama, Rubio, Ishida, Rolls.

GGG has more good wins imo...and more dominant in most of those wins...winning by KO and hardly losing a round...and more OK/Good wins total, almost all by KO...compared to quite a few decisions for Canelo.

That's without even getting into the 2 Canelo-GGG fights which I felt were pretty straightforward wins for GGG...outlanding Canelo in 18/22 rounds (2 ties)...that's 80+% of the rounds that he was outlanding Canelo...pretty impressive on that for sure.

So genuinely - what am I missing?

Edit - not to mention the clear loss Canelo has to Mayweather...but I don't really slight him for that...he was pretty green then and it was not an ideal weight for him.

I think Canelos resume is better but the guy just cherry picked names imo just like floyd. Theres a big difference beating someone when they're a threat vs when they're vulnerable.

Also. Most of these guys have Canelos nuts so deep down their throats they dont know any better. Must be a miserable existence living vicariously through someone because their real life is pathetic.

But what can you expect?

[aboutfkntime]

The other 'criteria' definitely matters...but as Weisfeld said.....

no, no, no..... STOP !!!

in YOUR thread, you should have simply agreed with the bold when we told you that the other 'criteria' matters..... and just left it there

because, THIS is what Steve Weisfeld said.....





it is ridiculous to attempt to twist Steve Weisfeld's words to insinuate that Golovkin won the rematch, because..... Steve Weisfeld judged that fight you fruitloop.....

[IMG]//media3.*****.com/media/33bpFN25l6qNW/*****.gif[/IMG]


that is why you did not put the link to my quote, in your sig

because you copped a shellacking in your own thread

[Boxing_1013]

Comparing resume's is futile and a waste of energy because it comes down to my opinion vs yours.That said we know Alvarez has been a protected fighter since his first WBC title fight vs Matt Hatton. Which he went on to defend against Rhodes, Gomez, Cintron, a shot Mosely and Joselito Lopez before finally risking a fight against a guy with a pulse.

Good points man...it is always about the opinions...I honestly just love boxing...so I get on here every so often to see what the topics of the day are...and occasionally I will see some narratives gaining steam that I don't really personally see.

So just wanted to throw it out there in a way...to see what others thought on the specifics...I figured most posts would be combative and maybe a little rude but I thought (correctly imo) some people would come in and give some good perspectives.

But yeah...I guess we can all see what we want to see sometimes...I do rate GGG very high based on what I've seen from him...but I think there are some valid criticisms that can be leveled at him too...I think he could have done more vs Jacobs and certainly Canelo to really help his legacy.

He could have moved up at a certain point if he really wanted to focus on 'legacy' too...could argue staying at MW was a better legacy move too...never really hurt Hagler...but still it is a worthwhile question about him.

I think waiting on Canelo was the right move all around...but I do think he could have negotiated earlier with Canelo on weight too...not saying he should have because it all worked out...but yeah I think it is fair to have some criticisms of him or anyone else.

Just to me a lot of the stuff leveled at him is kind of head-scratching stuff lol...like I'll read an article or two and will see the same lines parroted by different posters etc lol...Idk it's just weird to me I guess...I guess we all see things differently sometimes.

[aboutfkntime]

that is why you did not put the link to my quote, in your sig

because you copped a shellacking in your own thread

that was pretty fkn lame man

I bet you instantly regretted doing that when you saw my sig

I think I got your number on the sig war front buddy LMAO

[Boxing_1013]

that's definitely part of the discussion, but at the end of the day, strength of resume comes down to quality of wins. canelo having a win over ggg is better than anything on ggg's resume...even if most people thought it was a draw/loss. his recoed still says W vs ggg.

Fair point...I guess I could be in the minority where I am judging resumes based on my score rather than the official score...I love boxing but I can't really co-sign a lot of decisions...but yeah officially Canelo's 'win' is impressive...honestly GGG getting 'robbed' in those 2 fights doesn't even really bother me.

Canelo is the king and you could argue GGG didn't do enough to KO the cash king...which would ruin the fun and gravy train for everyone...and GGG got paid very well too which I feel he deserved...I thought GGG was pretty clearly the better man in both but some disagree I suppose...I am interested in a 3rd fight though....I think one of them will break at some point.

[Boxing_1013]

not really, they have different styles

how the hell does Golovkin " excel based on expectations " ?

he is a heavy-handed pressure fighter, who promised to fight the best..... and yet other than Jacobs, who he was forced to fight, and barely sc****d past..... he only selects made-to-order, lower-level, opponents who will be "available"

no, no, no..... STOP !!!

in YOUR thread, you should have simply agreed with the bold when we told you that the other 'criteria' matters..... and just left it there

because, THIS is what Steve Weisfeld said.....




it is ridiculous to attempt to twist Steve Weisfeld's words to insinuate that Golovkin won the rematch, because..... Steve Weisfeld judged that fight you fruitloop.....




that is why you did not put the link to my quote, in your sig

because you copped a shellacking in your own thread

that was pretty fkn lame man

I bet you instantly regretted doing that when you saw my sig

I think I got your number on the sig war front buddy LMAO

Lol dude...honestly I think you're a pretty funny guy...you're a unique character at least and I always appreciate that in people.

But yeah I just don't think we really see eye to eye on this one or the other things you mentioned in your posts...and to be completely honest man I have never seen you post anything at all on here unless it is about GGG lol...so I can't say what other opinions you may have on the sport and if I agree etc.

So yeah we have rehashed most of our points and counter points here 100 times...so unless you're starting to see the light this is going nowhere

[Boxing_1013]

I think Canelos resume is better but the guy just cherry picked names imo just like floyd. Theres a big difference beating someone when they're a threat vs when they're vulnerable.

Also. Most of these guys have Canelos nuts so deep down their throats they dont know any better. Must be a miserable existence living vicariously through someone because their real life is pathetic.

But what can you expect?

Sadly I think you're correct as far as people having a personal vested interest in their fighter or fighters doing well...or being perceived well...and also then denigrating other fighters to try and make their guys look better by comparison, while also slighting that fighter/his 'people'.

I personally don't think I have that problem...but I'm sure we all have our biases...I just try to look at stuff objectively and let the chips fall where they may...there have been great black white Mexican etc fighters...black fighters all-time probably have the highest percentage in my view...but the eastern euros are really doing well in this era and probably closing that gap some.

But yeah I guess my point is that it's not like there is a clear superiority there for any 'group'...or a real need for a great ____ hope...if someone really wants to pin their hopes on someone from their background, they honestly have a litany of fighters, past and present to choose from, to be proud of.

Yeah name wise...it is not really a debate...Mosley and Cotto are on Canelo's...and Lara too...GGG can't really compete there...if those were prime versions of Mosley and Cotto at or around their best weights...I would rate those wins as great wins.

That's the type of stuff an ATG would have...and honestly very rarely in this sport does a fighter have multiple great clear wins over another great fighter...especially if he doesn't have almost as many losses as well.

I do think Canelo beat Lara though so I give him full credit for that win...I love Lara but he pisses me off sometimes with how lackadaisical he can be at times...and that is why Canelo took it imo...he just raised his level while Lara didn't.

[Real King Kong]

Fair point...I guess I could be in the minority where I am judging resumes based on my score rather than the official score...I love boxing but I can't really co-sign a lot of decisions...but yeah officially Canelo's 'win' is impressive...honestly GGG getting 'robbed' in those 2 fights doesn't even really bother me.

Canelo is the king and you could argue GGG didn't do enough to KO the cash king...which would ruin the fun and gravy train for everyone...and GGG got paid very well too which I feel he deserved...I thought GGG was pretty clearly the better man in both but some disagree I suppose...I am interested in a 3rd fight though....I think one of them will break at some point.

This is why resumes don’t really matter until a fighter’s career is judged as a whole tbh...even then, who really cares. It can all be very subjective and it’s pretty well meaningless unless we’re talking about mythical p4p rankings. What really matters is the fights themselves...the best fighters facing each other as close to their primes as possible. That’s the only circumstance where who’s the best is settled...and even then it’s only on a given night. Boxing at the highest level is a sport of single fights over whole careers imo. Resumes invariably turn into never ending subjective arguments, cuz everyone can’t fight everyone and fighters peak at different times.