casual fans need to learn how to score a fight.....

[kafkod]

It matters how the punches were delivered such as whether they were power shots & whether they were delivered in what locations & even whether each fighter twisted their body completely into the punch(haymakers instead of powershot).

If you're trying to apply hypotheticals you cannot use the example you gave because it bears no relation to canelo vs ggg 1 or 2. If you used an accurate example for a rd in which ggg landed slightly more it would be more like this:

Fighter A(ggg)threw 47 landed 12 punches(24%) in a given rd & 8 are jabs 4 are power shots,8 of those punches warn't cleanly landed at all & 3 of the 4 power shots were arm punches where he didn't commit his entire weight behind it,& if all his punches were landed in 1-2 shot combos at a time & zero were to the body.

Fighter B(nelo) threw 26 & landed 11 punches (43%)but 8 were power shots 3 jabs & 5 power shots were bodyshots. All the punches of fighter B were delivered Cleanly except 2 which were 1 jab & 1 powershot,all of fighter bs punches came in 3 shot combos or more,& fighter B completely threw his entire body into Majority of his punches & not only landed cleanly but landed eye catching highlight reel shots to body & face that immortalized fighter A(ggg) as the Iron chin of the ages.


That would be a much more accurate version as an example

The only way to objectively judge the "power" of a punch is to observe the effect it has on the opponent.

Because of compubox, many fans now think of any punch that isn't a jab as a "power punch", and that's very misleading. A right cross, or left hook, that bounces harmlessly off the opponents chin without bothering him shouldn't score any higher than a jab that does the same thing.

[aboutfkntime]

Just I know where you two are coming from here, please answer this question:

Fighter A throws 50 punches in a round, and lands 10 of them cleanly,

Fighter B throws just 5 punches, but they all land cleanly.

Neither fighter visibly hurts, wobbles, or knocks down the other.

Who won that round .. fighter A (20% connect rate) or fighter B (100% connect rate) ???

I would need to watch the round

what happened to the 80% that missed..... ?

* in Teddy's voice *
(typed in bold, to simulate Teddy's passion)

the 40 missiles that missed..... WHY DID THEY MISS..... ?

was the gunner drunk..... or was he shooting at an antelope ?

an antelope who knew the missile was coming..... ?

HOW WAS THE ANTELOPE ABLE TO BE SO ACCURATE, IN THE FACE OF THAT BARRAGE..... ?

was he like a sniper, who toyed with his victim?..... or did he only fire when cornered, just to facilitate a lucky escape..... only to jump back on his bike and miraculously escape unscathed?

or..... (still, in Teddy's voice).....

HOW DID THEY MISS..... ?

did they miss wildly, only to be followed by a counter?..... did they hit gloves, air, arms, shoulders, what?..... did they fall short?..... HOW DID THEY MISS..... ?

which fighter looked better in the corner following that round..... the guy who landed 5 clean shots while facing a barrage of missiles, or the guy who blew his load for very little result.....?

/Teddy

I would need to watch the round man, same as anyone else

THAT is why you cannot use compubox to score a fight

THAT is why you guys need to give professional judges a break

you are not there... you are not trained... and you are not experienced

the absurd outrage from casuals following Golovkin/Canelo II and Ward/Kovalev II has been ridiculous

forget the first fight, both them dudes got handled in the rematch

like I said earlier..... people who use the word robbery, for EITHER of those rematches, and even for the first Canelo/Golovkin fight..... have identified themselves as dumb casuals by their own whining

you guys will not admit that Golovkin fell short of expectations

[aboutfkntime]

Assuming neither fighter knocks down or visibly hurts the other, then the number of clean punches landed supersedes all other scoring criteria. Defense, effective aggression, ring generalship, etc, only become factors if both fighters appear to land the same number of clean punches.

that is absolute rubbish..... read my last post

that is absolute nonsense kafkod..... a professional boxing judge is expected to have a feel for how a fight is unfolding based on the FOUR official criteria..... ALL of those criteria are a factor

honestly.....

that is not much better than the previous dreadful casual-fan argument..... that a boxing match is judged on punches landed

it is correct to suggest that clean HARD punching is the main criteria..... but it is wildly inaccurate to suggest that the other criteria will only become a factor if both fighters appear to land the same number of clean HARD punches

btw..... when quoting you, I included the word "HARD" because..... you kept forgetting, for some reason

you need to link me to that..... suggesting that defense is not a determining factor in a round unless the fighters land exactly the same amount of clean hard punches..... is nonsense

[aboutfkntime]

The only way to objectively judge the "power" of a punch is to observe the effect it has on the opponent.

[aboutfkntime]

The only way to objectively judge the "power" of a punch is to observe the effect it has on the opponent.

[Shadoww702]

LMFAO!! Exactly. Man ggg had two black eyes and went to the ER. Canelo went clubbing

[Shadoww702]

The only way to objectively judge the "power" of a punch is to observe the effect it has on the opponent.

Because of compubox, many fans now think of any punch that isn't a jab as a "power punch", and that's very misleading. A right cross, or left hook, that bounces harmlessly off the opponents chin without bothering him shouldn't score any higher than a jab that does the same thing.

Yeah GGG had two black eyes, a nasty cut and went to the ER while Canelo didn’t even look bad at all. He went clubbing and took pics with fans.

[Boxing_1013]

Guys...fellas...my friends....the only thing that matters in scoring a boxing match is 1) who is landing more punches, and the better punches. Come on this is basic stuff fellas. The other stuff not only has nothing to do with scoring a fight...it is also much more subjective than punch count and damage.

This means it would be bad to rely on those factors in scoring a fight - people can make a case (often times a bad one) that fighter A is 'being the ring general' or 'has better defense' even if he is clearly losing and getting out-landed. It is hard to legitimately argue against punch counts and punch effectiveness. And again - a boxing match is 100% about who is landing more and better punches.

As an example - Fury's shoe-shining in the (primarily first 6 rounds) Wilder fight did not give him a 10-2 victory. In most of the early rounds Fury would outland Wilder about 8-6...with many times Wilder getting the best punch or punches of the round. Those were even rounds, and with Wilder getting 2 KDs in the last 6 rounds (where Fury imo was outboxing him handily) led to a close fight round by round.

Honestly I don't mind Canelo fans trying to rationalize him winning either GGG fight - Canelo's fans run this sport in a way because they are the money behind it. So if they want to convince themselves Canelo won fights he didn't win...it is not a huge deal.

But if we are keeping it real on here...those two GGG-Canelo fights were easy to score. Fight 1 Canelo was fairly competitive in the first 3 rounds, and the last 3 rounds. Splitting those 3-3 was probably the right way t do it. GGG was clearly the better man in rounds 4-9 and probably deserved 5-1 in those 6 rounds. 8-4 for GGG.

When you get outlanded in almost every round, I suppose it becomes necessary for some hardcore fans to try and rationalize their guy winning, but again Canelo got outlanded in 10-11 rounds (1 tie) in the first GGG fight, with Canelo hardly having any 'big-punch moments.' If the fight were reversed, I would say GGG was lucky to get 4 rounds, and it's pretty easy to say that for Canelo here.

Fight 2 Canelo was much better and held the center of the ring better. Even though Canelo again got outlanded in 8-11 rounds (1 tie), he had some rounds where he quite clearly had the better combo or punch of the round. The first 5 rounds were a good example of this...GGG clearly outlanding Canelo, but Canelo landing the better punch or combo. Naturally these are close rounds and splitting them is almost always best practice.

GGG did have 2 clear rounds in the first five rounds - 4,5 - and I feel 4-2 after 6 for GGG was the best score. Outlanded Canelo in probably every round (round 6 was close by my count - I disagree with compubox numbers which had Canelo ahead there)...but Canelo had some better moments in those rounds.

Rounds 7 and 8 were close...split them. Rounds 9 10 and 11 were clear GGG rounds...round 12 was tight but I shade it to Canelo usually since it was all over on the cards at that point anyway.

Moral of the story - when you are outlanding your opponent in almost every round, and often times are landing the bigger shots in those rounds, you are almost certainly clearly winning the fight. Some people unfortunately seem to need to inject other criteria into fights like this, to try and make a case for their fighter winning. Again - fights are scored by who is landing more, and better, punches. Come on guys, that is obvious, we should be able to agree on that.

[Heru]

Casuals (and incompetent judges) score Ring Generalship above everything (not that they actually know what they're judging). It's a ridiculous premise that disregards the other 3 criteria.

Looking like the ring general gives the fighter with it an edge, but that edge can be overcome by being superior in 2 of the 3 remaining judging criteria from round to round (eg. Canelo's edge superior clean punching and excellent defense neutralized GGG in the first fight even though GGG was the clear ring general (the other criteria clearly states Effective Aggression, not Ineffective which is what GGG was for the majority of the fight)).

You can't win a round just by controlling (or looking like you're controlling) the fight, when the other fighter is clearly edging you in the other criteria.

[Boxing_1013]

Yeah GGG had two black eyes, a nasty cut and went to the ER while Canelo didn’t even look bad at all. He went clubbing and took pics with fans.

Cut was from the headbutt in the 12th I believe. But yeah Canelo did some good work in that fight. GGG showed a little damage at the end but many people make it to be much more damage than he actually sustained.

He took more damage against Ouma certainly - check that fight out if you haven't, great phone booth war while it lasted, and I had it pretty even before the KO.

But again - I've seen a few of your posts about the fight on here - boxing matches are scored round by round, who is scoring more and better punches. That's really all there is to it. And Canelo wasn't active enough in either fight, and didn't do enough damage when he landed to really take enough rounds to win. Watching those two fights, that was pretty clear. Come on man let's keep it real on here.