GGG has 1 competitive fight now he is "slipping" yea right more like media overhyping

[therealpugilist]

Brook himself and his team said that he's a big WW.

was he a top ten middleweight...no...has he beat anyone ranked in the top ten at 154 and 160...no

he was a welterweight...leave the icing and fixings on the side bro...no matter how you slice it, he fought a friggin welter who WILL BE FIGHTING AT WELTER IN HIS NEXT FIGHT

GIVE IT UP ALREADY

[Metho_4u]

In fairness a lot of fans are f#cking dummies. I don't see how its even arguably that the 2nd or 3rd guy in a division ISN'T a A level boxer regardless of some silly NSB poll that 50 guys probably voted in & 22 of them haven't paid their mom rent for April yet.

Because each division obviously has levels of talent, the mw division happens to be weak Jacobs is B level and golovkin is also B level. Why isn't Jacobs on any p4p lists? Because he ko'd quillen in impressive fashion, but who else did he beat? On a skill level Jacobs is B, on overall resume, he's less than that...and if one even attempts to put lemieux over a C+, then you truly do not know skill level in this sport.

[Eff Pandas]

No, I said I graded him b/B+. I said the close ness of the fight doesn't indicate slippage, but perhaps that GGG isn't A/A+ as some suggest.

Where we differ then is you can be a top guy in a division but that doesn't mean you are an elite level fighter. I think this has been the case with MW and HWT for some time.

This is one of my pet peeves with boxing fans. That there might not even be a A level guy or elite guy in a division at all. That sounds nuts to me.

But I mean sure everything is relative doe I don't disagree with you there. An A level or elite guy in one division wouldn't necessarily be an A level or elite guy in another division in that P4P type logic way.

For me I see anyone in that top fifteen-ish range as A level or elite in every division (maybe not in some of the lower weight divisions where there can be less fighters or HW where I might only consider the top 10) so I guess a lot of this difference of opinion is about definitions.

Well thats where we agree-the more money he can generate the more likely guys will be willing to fight him. In many ways its like Floyd-I don't think the guys that didn't fight him were scared of him, it was just high risk, low reward.

Yea I agree. That's usually the case with these situations. Anyone who's been around in a lil while can recall when Thurman was GGG & no one wanted to fight him cuz the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Floyd was that at one point as mentioned. Sugar Shane was that. Most of the guys who got big were that guy at some point in their career & sometimes even the flavor of the months were that til they got "exposed" as the dummies will say.

[Eff Pandas]

This is untrue, talent is one thing...marketability is something totally different, and many fighters are not "drafted" because they aren't marketable.

No clue what you are even talking about in the context I was talking about.

I didn't bring up marketability in the bolded remarks. You mighta been thinking I was talking about A-side/B-side economics or something. I wasn't.

I was talking A level talent/skills/accomplishments & A level talent/skills/accomplishments only.

[Eff Pandas]

Because each division obviously has levels of talent, the mw division happens to be weak Jacobs is B level and golovkin is also B level.

And this is exactly what I'm talking about. Sure every division has different levels of talent. But its all relative to that division. So for me saying there isn't an A level guy at all in a division is like saying you start your top ten rankings at #5 cuz no one is worthy of #1 thru #4.

Why isn't Jacobs on any p4p lists?

P4P is sci-fi fantasy child-like bs. "If everyone was the same size...." lol okayyyyyyyyy.

Because he ko'd quillen in impressive fashion, but who else did he beat?

Who else beat Quillin? Like I keep saying its all relative. Every division is its own division & has its own A caliber guys. If Jacobs isn't A at 160 who is? How does he become A level at 160 if no one is? Its silly logic.

On a skill level Jacobs is B, on overall resume, he's less than that...and if one even attempts to put lemieux over a C+, then you truly do not know skill level in this sport.

Lemieux was like the 4th or 5th best guy (someone feel free to correct me if he wasn't that high or if he was higher at the time) in the division & he's a C+/max, LOL. That's nuts. Its no wonder boxing can't go mainstream anymore outside of freak show fights, even a lot of boxing fans think everyone sucks.

[The Big Dunn]

This is one of my pet peeves with boxing fans. That there might not even be a A level guy or elite guy in a division at all. That sounds nuts to me.

But I mean sure everything is relative doe I don't disagree with you there. An A level or elite guy in one division wouldn't necessarily be an A level or elite guy in another division in that P4P type logic way.

For me I see anyone in that top fifteen-ish range as A level or elite in every division (maybe not in some of the lower weight divisions where there can be less fighters or HW where I might only consider the top 10) so I guess a lot of this difference of opinion is about definitions.



Yea I agree. That's usually the case with these situations. Anyone who's been around in a lil while can recall when Thurman was GGG & no one wanted to fight him cuz the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. Floyd was that at one point as mentioned. Sugar Shane was that. Most of the guys who got big were that guy at some point in their career & sometimes even the flavor of the months were that til they got "exposed" as the dummies will say.

I see your point. Take 168 right now. DeGale and Jack would be "A" level division wise, but I don't think either is seen as an elite level talent. At 115, you could argue the top 3 guys are A level (inoue, Cuadras, Gonzalez) while Sor has the kind of victory that is worthy of A level recognition. HWT had a period where only Wlad was an A level guy while ww had Floyd, Manny, bradley and JMM, all elite talents.

I don't totally disagree with you. Maybe instead of over rating GGG, I and others under rated Jacobs and he is really an A-/A level guy like GGG and he just needed to be in with him to show this. Fair point.

True, most guys have to be built into stars, they don't come in big stars like SRL and ODH anymore.

I don't think a tough fight exposes a fighter. I think you deserve credit when you win a tougher than expected fight.

[Cutthroat]

160 is weak as hell and it has to do with it's history.

Mid 2000's it was at it's peak with Hopkins, JT, Pavlik, Abraham, Miranda, Green etc.

All that changed with the Super 6, the champions and contenders of 160 left to fight the champions of 168.

That left 160 relatively weak, although Pavlik stayed in the division, Pirog was an up and comer and Martinez was a late bloomer.


The 160 champion Pavlik fought Hopkins at SMW and was never the same. Hopkins never returned to 160 so that left 160 with a loser as it's champion.

Martinez beat Pavlik, but his reign was short lived due to age and him blowing out his knee forced to retire.

Pirog was supposed to be the one to take over after defeating DJ but like Martinez, was forced out of boxing due to an injury.

That brings us to 160 today, a division still recovering from being a barren wasteland with up and comers like Dereveychenko, Charlo twins, Murata etc. guys that are already looking more impressive and complete than the current contenders like DJ and Lemieux.

[SUBZER0ED]

was he a top ten middleweight...no...has he beat anyone ranked in the top ten at 154 and 160...no

he was a welterweight...leave the icing and fixings on the side bro...no matter how you slice it, he fought a friggin welter who WILL BE FIGHTING AT WELTER IN HIS NEXT FIGHT

GIVE IT UP ALREADY

Well maybe you ought to write a letter to the top MWs who have been ducking Golovkin. Brook had the nuts to come up and fight GGG after Cuntnelo talked all of that shit then gave up his belt. I don't hear you talking about that, or any top MWs who have refused to get into the ring with Golovkin.

[therealpugilist]

Well maybe you ought to write a letter to the top MWs who have been ducking Golovkin. Brook had the nuts to come up and fight GGG after Cuntnelo talked all of that shit then gave up his belt. I don't hear you talking about that, or any top MWs who have refused to get into the ring with Golovkin.

Its been years bro


You're not tired of making excuses n giving GGG and k2 a pass?

Jacobs would happily rematch him, zurdo is interested, so are others from 154-168

Its been years bro. .you're beating a dead horse....its more to it to they ducking doe

[Metho_4u]

No clue what you are even talking about in the context I was talking about.

I didn't bring up marketability in the bolded remarks. You mighta been thinking I was talking about A-side/B-side economics or something. I wasn't.

I was talking A level talent/skills/accomplishments & A level talent/skills/accomplishments only.

What I was bringing up was if one believes out of 1500 fighters in a division that there's REALLY only 1 top guy, I don't think do. I think there's MANY talents that aren't in the spotlight based on marketability. You don't think for instance that somewhere a kid who plays basketball everyday, but doesn't have the right people to market him that he couldn't school some of the top players in the NBA?

Bottom line however, the MW division IS WEAK, thus top level MW fighters can be B level and be #1 or 2, because there's no A level talents there to really show the difference between the 2.