Robeisy Ramirez Reportedly Has An Orbital Fracture

[crimsonfalcon07]

Let me also say that I'm not dismissing the possibility that Espinoza is dirty, just that I don't think the evidence is as cut and dry as people are pretending, both from replays, and from extensive experience with elbow strikes both with boxing rules and with Muay Thai. And while I think it was a quit job, I unequivocally defend Ramirez's right to quit. It's his eye, his health, his career, and he's the one on the spot risking himself in the ring. I'm not going to say what he should or shouldn't have done, and I don't think anyone who doesn't have the balls to step in the ring should.

I also think he demonstrated that he's more skilled than Espinoza and I hope his career isn't negatively affected by it. As I mentioned in another thread, Daniel Dubois quit after a broken orbital, and again after a jab, and then he found that dog in him to make a career resurgence, and absolutely earned his stripes back. Only time will tell if Robeisy will do the same. I'm rooting for him, and I do hope that if he can answer that question within himself that he won't have too major of a career setback. He's still young enough that he has the room to come back and win, and I'd favor him vs most of the other champs at 126. He might even get his chance again if Espinoza tries to take on Vaquero Navarrete.

[garfios]

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Here's right after he misses that cross. You can see he's clearly not aimed an elbow at all. I've attached photos after, so you can see how Robeisy comes forward into it, then he recoils the left and aims an uppercut. You can see the glove headed towards the head, and then Robeisy pulls out, so he aborts the uppercut. I've also included the link to the moment live.



Way to ignore the explanations in favor of your pet theory. That second link is the slowed down version that highlights what happens in the 5th round. That's very obviously a missed right cross when you watch the whole moment. It's the same one from the second video on X. Ramirez smacked his own face into the arm. If he broke his orbital then, that's in no way a deliberate elbow. Then Espinoza attempts an uppercut, but Ramirez pulls back, and Espinoza aborts the uppercut. You can see the glove going right for where the head was. If you're hinging your theory on the strike in 5, I just don't see it, because he clearly missed a right cross and then an uppercut, and then Robeisy complains. Dave Greisman had a video of the moment on Fighting Words, and any notion that one was deliberate is highly dubious at best. As for his complaints about elbows in 4, nobody has found even one yet.



The guy who put up the slowed down version got absolutely dragged in the comments, and took it down, which is why the link doesn't work any more.

You can miss with the fist and hit with the elbow, on purpose. I saw the fight, I have seen the clips and everyone agrees he was using the elbows

[PBR Streetgang]

Somewhere Kriegel is resting on his silk sheets telling himself that both he and Israel Vasquez would have fought on with an orbital fracture.

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

You can miss with the fist and hit with the elbow, on purpose. I saw the fight, I have seen the clips and everyone agrees he was using the elbows

Although I believe that I saw Espinoza throw a few elbows, I don't believe the one on that image, is an intentional elbow. That was a combination of a missed punch from Espinoza and Ramirez leading in with his head that caused the forearm and elbow to connect in my opinion.

[crimsonfalcon07]

You can miss with the fist and hit with the elbow, on purpose. I saw the fight, I have seen the clips and everyone agrees he was using the elbows

I teach people how to throw elbows and that's NOT how to do it. There's zero power with the arm that straight. Try it yourself on the bag and you'll see how much nonsense you're talking, if you actually have any interest in the truth here.

Now you're saying he missed the punch on purpose, because Robeisy wasn't making it hard for him to hit with punches, and he could have landed that with the glove, but no, he missed on purpose so he could hit with the elbow. Why did he do that? Because he was missing punches because Robeisy is slippery and he was frustrated. Do you even hear yourself??

It was straight until Robeisy crashed into him to smother. If you're going to deliberately miss with a punch to hit with the elbow, it's going to be a hook or uppercut every time, because the arm is already bent, and tall lanky fighters will have the elbow stand out more than the fist naturally on every short strike due to anatomy, so you'll have power and a built in excuse. That one was a missed cross. That's not a deliberate elbow, and the only way it does damage is Robeisy rubbing his own eye into it.

The chicken wing hook attempt in the first round looks way more like a deliberate elbow, and if you were on about that, I'd give you more credence here. But that also didn't land on the eye, nor did the follow-up. Even if there weren't explanations for how that happened (and that's also a mechanically poor elbow, since the fist is too low to have power; it's a shuck for a pinned glove, and again, is a technique for clearing a hand pin, which is all stuff you could try for yourself if you wanted to be intellectually honest here), they don't account for the eye damage.

Those were also the only elbows in the entire fight that the Internet wannabe sleuths have come up with. One short sequence in the first round, and a missed cross and aborted uppercut in the fifth. That's hardly a pattern of dirty behavior, as you claim. And it doesn't match the claims of elbows in the 4th made by Ramirez. Of which there were zero, although Espinoza did land some nice counters to the face that could have done the damage.

And, no, everyone doesn't agree that those were elbows, especially in the 5th. Every comment on the slowed down version was "that doesn't look deliberate; Ramirez was rubbing his eye on the forearm." There wasn't even one comment on that video, which you think showed proof, that thought it was deliberate, which is why the OP took it down yesterday, because he was getting absolutely dragged in the comments.

[garfios]

I teach people how to throw elbows and that's NOT how to do it. There's zero power with the arm that straight. Try it yourself on the bag and you'll see how much nonsense you're talking, if you actually have any interest in the truth here.

Now you're saying he missed the punch on purpose, because Robeisy wasn't making it hard for him to hit with punches, and he could have landed that with the glove, but no, he missed on purpose so he could hit with the elbow. Why did he do that? Because he was missing punches because Robeisy is slippery and he was frustrated. Do you even hear yourself??

It was straight until Robeisy crashed into him to smother. If you're going to deliberately miss with a punch to hit with the elbow, it's going to be a hook or uppercut every time, because the arm is already bent, and tall lanky fighters will have the elbow stand out more than the fist naturally on every short strike due to anatomy, so you'll have power and a built in excuse. That one was a missed cross. That's not a deliberate elbow, and the only way it does damage is Robeisy rubbing his own eye into it.

The chicken wing hook attempt in the first round looks way more like a deliberate elbow, and if you were on about that, I'd give you more credence here. But that also didn't land on the eye, nor did the follow-up. Even if there weren't explanations for how that happened (and that's also a mechanically poor elbow, since the fist is too low to have power; it's a shuck for a pinned glove, and again, is a technique for clearing a hand pin, which is all stuff you could try for yourself if you wanted to be intellectually honest here), they don't account for the eye damage.

Those were also the only elbows in the entire fight that the Internet wannabe sleuths have come up with. One short sequence in the first round, and a missed cross and aborted uppercut in the fifth. That's hardly a pattern of dirty behavior, as you claim. And it doesn't match the claims of elbows in the 4th made by Ramirez. Of which there were zero, although Espinoza did land some nice counters to the face that could have done the damage.

And, no, everyone doesn't agree that those were elbows, especially in the 5th. Every comment on the slowed down version was "that doesn't look deliberate; Ramirez was rubbing his eye on the forearm." There wasn't even one comment on that video, which you think showed proof, that thought it was deliberate, which is why the OP took it down yesterday, because he was getting absolutely dragged in the comments.

You should ask divino how he does it.

[CubanGuyNYC]

And, no, everyone doesn't agree that those were elbows, especially in the 5th. Every comment on the slowed down version was "that doesn't look deliberate; Ramirez was rubbing his eye on the forearm." There wasn't even one comment on that video, which you think showed proof, that thought it was deliberate, which is why the OP took it down yesterday, because he was getting absolutely dragged in the comments.

I’ve been unable to find definitive video evidence of an elbow landing in the fifth. I don’t know what point in the fight the picture below is taken from, but it’s a pretty clear shot. My feelings about the topic hinge on various anecdotal factors. One: Espinoza threw elbows in the first encounter. I saw at least one myself, and the announcers repeatedly made mention of it in the rematch, so there was a history. Two: Divino was warned by the ref for one blatant elbow we all saw clearly in the first round. Three: Ramirez was winning the fight without having received virtually any significant punches to the face. In fact, I would say that easily the best punch Espinoza landed was the one that made Robeisy quit. It was a good punch, certainly, but nothing extraordinary. Was it enough to fracture an orbital bone? Possibly, but I don’t think so. Four: We’re told that Ramirez complained to his trainer at the end of the fifth that he had been elbowed in his eye and was seeing double. We’re further told that Salas asked him to go out for the next round and “see how he felt.” (An idea that even without the benefit of hindsight seems ill-advised. The ref should’ve been made aware of what was happening, and a doctor called to assess the situation.)

Anyway, what’s done is done. Robeisy indeed quit, albeit within understandable grounds; Espinoza retains the belt; and life goes on.


IMG_5598.jpg

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

I’ve been unable to find definitive video evidence of an elbow landing in the fifth. I don’t know what point in the fight the picture below is taken from, but it’s a pretty clear shot. My feelings about the topic hinge on various anecdotal factors. One: Espinoza threw elbows in the first encounter. I saw at least one myself, and the announcers repeatedly made mention of it in the rematch, so there was a history. Two: Divino was warned by the ref for one blatant elbow we all saw clearly in the first round. Three: Ramirez was winning the fight without having received virtually any significant punches to the face. In fact, I would say that easily the best punch Espinoza landed was the one that made Robeisy quit. It was a good punch, certainly, but nothing extraordinary. Was it enough to fracture an orbital bone? Possibly, but I don’t think so. Four: We’re told that Ramirez complained to his trainer at the end of the fifth that he had been elbowed in his eye and was seeing double. We’re further told that Salas asked him to go out for the next round and “see how he felt.” (An idea that even without the benefit of hindsight seems ill-advised. The ref should’ve been made aware of what was happening, and a doctor called to assess the situation.)

Anyway, what’s done is done. Robeisy indeed quit, albeit within understandable grounds; Espinoza retains the belt; and life goes on.


IMG_5598.jpg

As I stated earlier, I thought I saw some intentional elbows, but I don't remember seeing anything that would have busted his orbital. Ramirez behaved gentlemanly after the fight, the way the bout ended is disappointing as the fight was heating up. I wish Ramirez all the best!

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

I teach people how to throw elbows and that's NOT how to do it. There's zero power with the arm that straight. Try it yourself on the bag and you'll see how much nonsense you're talking, if you actually have any interest in the truth here.

Now you're saying he missed the punch on purpose, because Robeisy wasn't making it hard for him to hit with punches, and he could have landed that with the glove, but no, he missed on purpose so he could hit with the elbow. Why did he do that? Because he was missing punches because Robeisy is slippery and he was frustrated. Do you even hear yourself??

It was straight until Robeisy crashed into him to smother. If you're going to deliberately miss with a punch to hit with the elbow, it's going to be a hook or uppercut every time, because the arm is already bent, and tall lanky fighters will have the elbow stand out more than the fist naturally on every short strike due to anatomy, so you'll have power and a built in excuse. That one was a missed cross. That's not a deliberate elbow, and the only way it does damage is Robeisy rubbing his own eye into it.

The chicken wing hook attempt in the first round looks way more like a deliberate elbow, and if you were on about that, I'd give you more credence here. But that also didn't land on the eye, nor did the follow-up. Even if there weren't explanations for how that happened (and that's also a mechanically poor elbow, since the fist is too low to have power; it's a shuck for a pinned glove, and again, is a technique for clearing a hand pin, which is all stuff you could try for yourself if you wanted to be intellectually honest here), they don't account for the eye damage.

Those were also the only elbows in the entire fight that the Internet wannabe sleuths have come up with. One short sequence in the first round, and a missed cross and aborted uppercut in the fifth. That's hardly a pattern of dirty behavior, as you claim. And it doesn't match the claims of elbows in the 4th made by Ramirez. Of which there were zero, although Espinoza did land some nice counters to the face that could have done the damage.

And, no, everyone doesn't agree that those were elbows, especially in the 5th. Every comment on the slowed down version was "that doesn't look deliberate; Ramirez was rubbing his eye on the forearm." There wasn't even one comment on that video, which you think showed proof, that thought it was deliberate, which is why the OP took it down yesterday, because he was getting absolutely dragged in the comments.

Very insightful post, thanks for the effort. Not may posters around here post or reply in such manner.

[garfios]

Let me also say that I'm not dismissing the possibility that Espinoza is dirty, just that I don't think the evidence is as cut and dry as people are pretending, both from replays, and from extensive experience with elbow strikes both with boxing rules and with Muay Thai. And while I think it was a quit job, I unequivocally defend Ramirez's right to quit. It's his eye, his health, his career, and he's the one on the spot risking himself in the ring. I'm not going to say what he should or shouldn't have done, and I don't think anyone who doesn't have the balls to step in the ring should.

I also think he demonstrated that he's more skilled than Espinoza and I hope his career isn't negatively affected by it. As I mentioned in another thread, Daniel Dubois quit after a broken orbital, and again after a jab, and then he found that dog in him to make a career resurgence, and absolutely earned his stripes back. Only time will tell if Robeisy will do the same. I'm rooting for him, and I do hope that if he can answer that question within himself that he won't have too major of a career setback. He's still young enough that he has the room to come back and win, and I'd favor him vs most of the other champs at 126. He might even get his chance again if Espinoza tries to take on Vaquero Navarrete.

So you think the grazing blow that "ended" the fight, and just to remind you his eye began to swell after he complained to the ref for the elbows, in the fifth round. The evidence is there to be seen, he got hit, complained to ref who acknowledged the foul and the eye began to swell, and you suggested on a previous post that the grazing last punch ended the fight. Common man, do you think we're idiots?