Comments Thread For: Daniel Dubois and Anthony Joshua Involved In Altercation Ahead Of Big-Fight Announcement

[Toffee]

An insult to compare Ali's 3 time heavyweight champion status, to Joshua's potential 3 time heavyweight Belt holder status

Don't compare them equally then. Not all titlists are equal, but if he wins he will be a 3 time world champion.

Buffer referring to Dubois as a now two time world heavyweight champion was a little more confusing.

[kafkod]

Great response. I've been following boxing since Manila in 1975. The term 'lineal' rarely came up in the years since, and even then, only for the most part at heavyweight. It may have been used and applied a few time to Carlos Monzon in the lead-up to his memorable unification bouts with Rodrigo Valdes, but beyond that I cannot remember. They pulled it out and dusted it off for Fury The Ring has changed with the times, especially given that the man and those around him that started it and its ratings system have long since passed. The sport has changed. Fighters like Bud Crawford and Oleksander Usyk go the course and pull together the belts by being the very best, making such terms obsolete. And that is how it should be.

Here here!

Since I came online in 2007 and was able to follow what was going on behind the scenes in boxing, there have only been 3 situations where lineal titles were brought up as important factors in terms of rating the merits of different champs in the same division and/or negotiating fights:

When Adonis Stevenson held the WBC lightheavyweight title and Kovalev was on a mission to unify the division, Stevenson and his fans made a big deal out of the fact that Adonis was the lineal champ - which apparently meant that Kovalev, despite holding the other 3 belts, needed to show some respect and accept B side status if he wanted a shot at the "real" LHW title.

Exactly the same thing happened when Canelo became WBC middleweight champion and GGG was chasing him to try and add the WBC belt to the WBA, WBO and IBF belts he already held.

Then, of course, there was the Tyson Fury comeback saga, when he used Wlad's alleged lineal status to claim lineal status for himself and was vociferously supported by his fans and the UK sports media while doing so, What fascinated me about that story was that nobody, including Wlad Klitschko himself, ever referred to Wlad as the lineal champion until after Fury beat him.

Interestingly, after Adonis lost to Gvosdyk and Canelo beat GGG, the lineal LHW and MW titles - which had been so important till then - mysteriously disappeared from public consciousness and haven't been mentioned since. I predict that the same thing will happen to the lineal HW title. At least, for as long as enough money is available to persuade the top HWs to actually fight each other for the recognised title belts.

[billeau2]

Great response. I've been following boxing since Manila in 1975. The term 'lineal' rarely came up in the years since, and even then, only for the most part at heavyweight. It may have been used and applied a few time to Carlos Monzon in the lead-up to his memorable unification bouts with Rodrigo Valdes, but beyond that I cannot remember. They pulled it out and dusted it off for Fury The Ring has changed with the times, especially given that the man and those around him that started it and its ratings system have long since passed. The sport has changed. Fighters like Bud Crawford and Oleksander Usyk go the course and pull together the belts by being the very best, making such terms obsolete. And that is how it should be.

The lineal in spirit is reserved for the heavyweights because the heavyweights always represented the top of the sport. The lineal is like a fire extinguisher... It makes an appearance when it has to. The trouble with your perception is that traditionally the champion was never sanctioned by some state agency, he was a man of the people, and the people had the power to designate the "best."

Ask yourself a question... All these alphabet soups, are their current champions selected because they are the best, hardest to beat? No. The lineal is simple, it needs no sanctioning, no fees paid, no drug testing, etc. It goes to the man who beats the best... And when, on occasion the lineal is unresolved because of a retirement, etc? It always comes back into play, no harm done. Simple, elegant, effective, for the people, by the people... No group can BUY the rights to the lineal which is why clowns say it does not matter. It matters a lot... It is perhaps the truest, most authentic designation a champ can have, whether he knows it, or not... The people, the fans have the right to designate the champion and the lineal is how they do it.

[harry-greb]

Stop being sentimental. Statistics are Statistics.

Nothing sentimental about it. Joshua has never beaten The Man

[harry-greb]

Don't compare them equally then. Not all titlists are equal, but if he wins he will be a 3 time world champion.

Buffer referring to Dubois as a now two time world heavyweight champion was a little more confusing.

I won't compare them at all

[billeau2]

I won't compare them at all

It was downright silly. Dubois deserves all the respect and love of the fans... But it really becomes cringy when the word "champion" becomes a commodity devalued through constant watering down... Adulterated by agencies with financial stakes.

Dubois will feel better trying to be a champ in the ring... At least I would imagine so.

[billeau2]

Here here!

Since I came online in 2007 and was able to follow what was going on behind the scenes in boxing, there have only been 3 situations where lineal titles were brought up as important factors in terms of rating the merits of different champs in the same division and/or negotiating fights:

When Adonis Stevenson held the WBC lightheavyweight title and Kovalev was on a mission to unify the division, Stevenson and his fans made a big deal out of the fact that Adonis was the lineal champ - which apparently meant that Kovalev, despite holding the other 3 belts, needed to show some respect and accept B side status if he wanted a shot at the "real" LHW title.

Exactly the same thing happened when Canelo became WBC middleweight champion and GGG was chasing him to try and add the WBC belt to the WBA, WBO and IBF belts he already held.

Then, of course, there was the Tyson Fury comeback saga, when he used Wlad's alleged lineal status to claim lineal status for himself and was vociferously supported by his fans and the UK sports media while doing so, What fascinated me about that story was that nobody, including Wlad Klitschko himself, ever referred to Wlad as the lineal champion until after Fury beat him.

Interestingly, after Adonis lost to Gvosdyk and Canelo beat GGG, the lineal LHW and MW titles - which had been so important till then - mysteriously disappeared from public consciousness and haven't been mentioned since. I predict that the same thing will happen to the lineal HW title. At least, for as long as enough money is available to persuade the top HWs to actually fight each other for the recognised title belts.

Your ignorance knows no bounds... There was an article about Todd Herring, a fair to middlin' heavy weight fighter. The journalist had been from Herring's hood and described Herring, hereto understood to be a decent heavyweight, and how he was a terror... Nobody had to ask who the bad a s s in the hood was... Herring laid out more than a few and when he walked down the block, people knew to move aside. there was no government committee, no sanctioning neighborhood watch... Herring was the man until someone could beat him... A Bully for sure, but apparently a tough one to take down. That is the "feel" of the lineal. No one would announce anything lol.

The lineal is steeped in human social dynamics, it does not need to be recognized, or talked about at length... It announces itself when there is otherwise confusion and mucking around with the idea of what a champion truly is. It mostly applies to the heavyweights, but the mechanism certainly can be applied to other divisions. The concept is beautifully simple and NO GROUP can short circuit it! To be the lineal... You have to beat the best. Simple.

If the lineal was applied like it should be, we would not have the crap champions that alphabet soup tries to feed us, the fans... Charlie Z type belts for sale...Yet constantly fans shoot themselves in the foot with the lineal and give their power to these alphabet sanctioned champions.

[eco1]

Joshua will Ko DDD and I like DDD but I see too many people hating and saying the opposite.

DDD gets hit too much and if AJ catches you, you go down.

[kafkod]

Your ignorance knows no bounds... There was an article about Todd Herring, a fair to middlin' heavy weight fighter. The journalist had been from Herring's hood and described Herring, hereto understood to be a decent heavyweight, and how he was a terror... Nobody had to ask who the bad a s s in the hood was... Herring laid out more than a few and when he walked down the block, people knew to move aside. there was no government committee, no sanctioning neighborhood watch... Herring was the man until someone could beat him... A Bully for sure, but apparently a tough one to take down. That is the "feel" of the lineal. No one would announce anything lol.

The lineal is steeped in human social dynamics, it does not need to be recognized, or talked about at length... It announces itself when there is otherwise confusion and mucking around with the idea of what a champion truly is. It mostly applies to the heavyweights, but the mechanism certainly can be applied to other divisions. The concept is beautifully simple and NO GROUP can short circuit it! To be the lineal... You have to beat the best. Simple.

If the lineal was applied like it should be, we would not have the crap champions that alphabet soup tries to feed us, the fans... Charlie Z type belts for sale...Yet constantly fans shoot themselves in the foot with the lineal and give their power to these alphabet sanctioned champions.

The word salad king of Bscene has spoken.

Do me a favour, mate, don't speak to me again unless you have something worthwhile to say.

[kafkod]

The people, the fans have the right to designate the champion and the lineal is how they do it.

Anybody who has followed boxing, especially the HW division, for any length of time, knows that this is not true.

Mike Tyson unified all 3 title belts to become the first undisputed champion of the 3 belt era. He didn't need to then ko "lineal champion" Michael Spinks in order to be recognised by boxing fans all over the world as The Man in the HW division.

Going into that fight, we all knew that Iron Mike was the real HW champ and Spinks was a pretender looking for a payday.

A few years later, WBC champ Lennox Lewis KO'd "lineal" champ Shannon Briggs, but Lennox was not recognised by fans nor journalists as THE world HW champ until he won the WBA and IBF belts from Holyfield.

Tyson Fury made a big deal of his bogus lineal title when he came back from 2 years out after beating Wlad and sold fights against the likes of Tom Schwarz and Otto Wallin as world title fights. But nobody outside of his most deluded fanboys recognised Fury as world HW champion until he won the WBC title from Wilder.

Usyk is now universally recognised as the REAL HW champ. But that has everything to do with him unifying all 4 title belts and nothing to with him winning the fantasy lineal title from Fury.