Comments Thread For: Daniel Dubois and Anthony Joshua Involved In Altercation Ahead Of Big-Fight Announcement

[kafkod]

Obviously not a ped test. Come on now. Let's say he refuses to fight mandatories, and he's stripped of the trinkets. Who will be the Heavyweight champion??

Just looking at the Ring and Tbrb rankings, there is a consensus that Fury and Joshua are the Top 2 contenders.
You're not going to argue with that surely!!

Fury failed a PED test, relinquished his belts and retired. You and the other lineal fans still recognised him as the true world champion when he made his comeback because, "the lineal title can only be won and lost in the ring"

So why would Usyk not still be lineal champ if the same thing happened with him?

The original idea behind the Ring title was that it would be awarded to the lineal champion. But the Ring had to abandon that concept because it became unworkable in the 3 belt era. Things are even more confused now, with 4 recognised title belts, plus the Ring title, in every division.

The concept of a lineal title, that has no governing body and no enforceable rules, depends on lineal champions governing themselves by always behaving honestly and honourably. That might work in classical Japanese martial arts, but it doesn't work in pro boxing. Tyson Fury proved that, conclusively.

[JakeTheBoxer]

I think Dubois has a great chance. Joshua is a little puss.y.

[harry-greb]

Fury failed a PED test, relinquished his belts and retired. You and the other lineal fans still recognised him as the true world champion when he made his comeback because, "the lineal title can only be won and lost in the ring"

So why would Usyk not still be lineal champ if the same thing happened with him?

The original idea behind the Ring title was that it would be awarded to the lineal champion. But the Ring had to abandon that concept because it became unworkable in the 3 belt era. Things are even more confused now, with 4 recognised title belts, plus the Ring title, in every division.

The concept of a lineal title, that has no governing body and no enforceable rules, depends on lineal champions governing themselves by always behaving honestly and honourably. That might work in classical Japanese martial arts, but it doesn't work in pro boxing. Tyson Fury proved that, conclusively.

U still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it again.
If Usyk is stripped of the alphabet trinkets, (not retiring or peds) and they are fought for and won by other fighters, who will be The World Heavyweight Champion???

Because previously u have said, and I quote "Usyk is now universally recognised as the REAL HW champ. But that has everything to do with him unifying all 4 belts and nothing to do with him winning the fantasy lineal title from Fury"

[kafkod]

U still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask it again.
If Usyk is stripped of the alphabet trinkets, (not retiring or peds) and they are fought for and won by other fighters, who will be The World Heavyweight Champion???

Because previously u have said, and I quote "Usyk is now universally recognised as the REAL HW champ. But that has everything to do with him unifying all 4 belts and nothing to do with him winning the fantasy lineal title from Fury"

The answer to your question obviously depends on WHY Usyk got stripped of his belts. It wouldn't happen without a reason.


You haven't answered my question. If Usyk failed a PED test and retired, like Fury did, then came back 2 years later without any belts and started fighting unranked journeyman, like Fury did. Would Usyk still be the world champion?

[harry-greb]

The answer to your question obviously depends on WHY Usyk got stripped of his belts. It wouldn't happen without a reason.


You haven't answered my question. If Usyk failed a PED test and retired, like Fury did, then came back 2 years later without any belts and started fighting unranked journeyman, like Fury did. Would Usyk still be the world champion?

It literally would happen without a reason, that's the point. He's already lost one belt for rematching Fury. So 2 fighters he's already beaten, will fight for "the world heavyweight championship"

Usyk wud never retire, then un retire, he strikes me as a man of his word. But I'll answer.
If Usyk retired, I'm sure everybody, fans, journalists, historians would take him at his word (unlike Fury) and so the lineal crown would become vacant. Hopefully the consensus top 2 contenders would fight to crown a new champion.

If Usyk decides to unretire, and has a couple of tune ups, then he absolutely wud need to fight the new champ to settle any confusion,as has happened before throughout history

[kafkod]

It literally would happen without a reason, that's the point. He's already lost one belt for rematching Fury. So 2 fighters he's already beaten, will fight for "the world heavyweight championship"

Usyk wud never retire, then un retire, he strikes me as a man of his word. But I'll answer.
If Usyk retired, I'm sure everybody, fans, journalists, historians would take him at his word (unlike Fury) and so the lineal crown would become vacant. Hopefully the consensus top 2 contenders would fight to crown a new champion.

If Usyk decides to unretire, and has a couple of tune ups, then he absolutely wud need to fight the new champ to settle any confusion,as has happened before throughout history

You are contradicting yourself now, which proves how flawed and irrational this lineal title nonsense is.

Usyk was not stripped of the IBF belt for literally no reason. You stated the reason right there in your comment!

You are also saying that if Usyk behaved like Fury, he would lose his "lineal crown"

But wait ... haven't you and Silly Billy been justifying Fury's lineal title claim by saying that the lineal title can only be won and lost in the ring?

Who made that rule up? What gives you the right to change it, just because it doesn't fit your personal agenda?

Yes, Usyk is an honourable man, which is why he isn't claiming to hold any bogus lineal title. But the lineage won't end with him. What if he loses to Fury in his next fight? Would you guys really be gullible enough to fall for Fury's lineal title schtik all over again?

[harry-greb]

You are contradicting yourself now, which proves how flawed and irrational this lineal title nonsense is.

Usyk was not stripped of the IBF belt for literally no reason. You stated the reason right there in your comment!

You are also saying that if Usyk behaved like Fury, he would lose his "lineal crown"

But wait ... haven't you and Silly Billy been justifying Fury's lineal title claim by saying that the lineal title can only be won and lost in the ring?

Who made that rule up? What gives you the right to change it, just because it doesn't fit your personal agenda?

Yes, Usyk is an honourable man, which is why he isn't claiming to hold any bogus lineal title. But the lineage won't end with him. What if he loses to Fury in his next fight? Would you guys really be gullible enough to fall for Fury's lineal title schtik all over again?

Please point out where I said the lineal title can only be won or lost in the ring

[kafkod]

Please point out where I said the lineal title can only be won or lost in the ring

You said you can only become the lineal champ by beating the lineal champ. That means the same thing.

Notice how throwing a mythical lineal title into the mix does not end the confusion caused by multiple sanctioned titles, it only adds to it.

[harry-greb]

Again I ask u to point out where I said the lineal title can only be won or lost in the ring?

And I'm still waiting for an answer to who is the heavyweight champion if Usyk is stripped of the trinkets. And please don't go round the houses with your failed ped stuff. It's a simple hypothetical question. I've answered your hypotheticals.

"throwing a mythical lineal title into the mix"
Oh my God, the lineal title has been around for over 130 years!!!!!