The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[GhostofDempsey]

Well then like I said it's very simple.

Answer the question. Were there championship fights in NY during the Frawley act?


You said no. I said yes . Do you still have that opinion or did I prove you wrong.

Stop ducking and answer.



Oh, and I've asked you this before too and I'll ask you again. What have I been wrong about? Let me know!!!!

You’ve been wrong about everything. You are unable to admit when you are wrong even when presented with primary sources. I’ve wasted all the time I’m going to waste on you running in circles as you deflect, duck, and change the topic or refuse to answer questions. Our post history is here for anyone who cares enough to muddle their way through it. I’m not getting into the same type of Vietnam you got into with Spoon for hundreds of pages/thousands of posts/over five years on just one thread. Maybe you have that level of OCD and willingness to embarrass yourself, but most normal posters can’t be bothered.

[GhostofDempsey]

Its a matter of public record that Johnson signed to defend against Jeannette twice,and that the two attempts were vetoed by the NYAC with threats of suspension for any promoter who put the fight on.The promoters the McMahon Brothers, the NYAC,and Jeannette himself all made public statements about it.In his statement to the press Jeannette said," Ir I do not blame Johnson in any way for the failure of the fight to happen".Its been posted here, as has the promoters and NYAC's statements. Sorry Sunshine, you'll have to find another stick to beat Johnson with.

It’s not a matter of public record. It’s a historical fact that Jeannette, McVey and Langford never got title shots while Johnson was champion. It’s documented all over. All three fighters insisted as much. Johnson either found ways out of contracts or never intended to follow through. Defend to the death if you want to continue lookimg ridiculous.

[travestyny]

You’ve been wrong about everything. You are unable to admit when you are wrong even when presented with primary sources. I’ve wasted all the time I’m going to waste on you running in circles as you deflect, duck, and change the topic or refuse to answer questions. Our post history is here for anyone who cares enough to muddle their way through it. I’m not getting into the same type of Vietnam you got into with Spoon for hundreds of pages/thousands of posts/over five years on just one thread. Maybe you have that level of OCD and willingness to embarrass yourself, but most normal posters can’t be bothered.

That's a whole lot of words just to duck.

All you have to do is prove what you say. That's all that's ever been asked of us in the history section. Some of us shy away from that I suppose

[mrbig1]

Back to topic. The question is Jack Johnson a top 20 all time p4p? I would say no. I'm not saying he wasn't a great fighter. They are many ahead of him.

[GhostofDempsey]

That's a whole lot of words just to duck.

All you have to do is prove what you say. That's all that's ever been asked of us in the history section. Some of us shy away from that I suppose

All you do is accuse people of ducking after they’ve already proven you wrong. In fact if someone doesn’t agree with you within about 2 or 3 exchanges you become fragile and start with the personal attacks and insults and all the ducking nonsense. I can show thousands of your posts where you’ve done with this countless members of this site for years. It’s an old tired act that everyone has called you out on.

[travestyny]

All you do is accuse people of ducking after they’ve already proven you wrong. In fact if someone doesn’t agree with you within about 2 or 3 exchanges you become fragile and start with the personal attacks and insults and all the ducking nonsense. I can show thousands of your posts where you’ve done with this countless members of this site for years. It’s an old tired act that everyone has called you out on.

Well I'm asking you to show me where you've proven me wrong and you are DUCKING.


So let's see if you step up and do so. Anyone here can call me out on issuing insults if I'm wrong. So step up to the plate and let's see what you got!


Or...will you continue to duck. Which is it?



You aren't fooling anyone with this blatant ducking you are doing. It's obvious that you have NOTHING!

[Ivich]

It’s not a matter of public record. It’s a historical fact that Jeannette, McVey and Langford never got title shots while Johnson was champion. It’s documented all over. All three fighters insisted as much. Johnson either found ways out of contracts or never intended to follow through. Defend to the death if you want to continue looking ridiculous.

I posted the primary sources to back up my statements ,times dates,purses,locations ,promoters. authors The fact that you refuse to accept them is down to you ,no point in debating this further .I'd just point out that if we overlooked your phobic hatred of Johnson ,the rest of your content is okay which makes it a shame you have this irrational bias.
Please produce any negative remarks Sam McVey ever made about Johnson,they were close friends and McVey lived with Johnson and travelled with him sometimes acting as his second.Johnson of course paid for McVey's funeral.

[QueensburyRules]

Willard 238 1/2
Moran 203
Ross214
Kaufman 191
Jeffries227
Johnson 222 3/4
Don't you ever get tired of being proved wrong?

- - U musta proofed that wif a couple bottles of Everclear.

The basic premise was JJohnson didn't fight near the best of his era in his weight class, as proven with the two middlewt HOFers Ketchell/Obrien and the rest. Absent Willard, those names average out to 198 lbs. Moran a decent fighter gets a pass as does the shot carcass of 350 lb stickman Jeffries because of the fabulous sum he received to get beat up after 6 yrs absence in the Farce of the Century, ie Lineal Title nonsense that gets passed around like toothfaerie conferences at the foot of every rainbow.

White Champ Luther McCarty in spite of being only 21 yrs of age had already disposed of some of those names with better results much like prime Jeff did with JJ overlapping opponents.

It's sorta like U was born yesterday every day of your life.

[GhostofDempsey]

I posted the primary sources to back up my statements ,times dates,purses,locations ,promoters. authors The fact that you refuse to accept them is down to you ,no point in debating this further .I'd just point out that if we overlooked your phobic hatred of Johnson ,the rest of your content is okay which makes it a shame you have this irrational bias.
Please produce any negative remarks Sam McVey ever made about Johnson,they were close friends and McVey lived with Johnson and travelled with him sometimes acting as his second.Johnson of course paid for McVey's funeral.

Yet he never fought them as champion. He could have had those fights made easily in France or elsewhere, but it never happened and he never wanted it. His own quotes on the subject regarding color line and being the only black champion support the actual quotes by Jeannette, Langford and McVey on the subject. Historians collectively agree he didn’t give them a legitimate shot at the title. You insist on glossing over the fact that Jeannette defeated Battling Jim twice that year before Johnson fought him, and he turned down $20k for Jeannette while settling for peanuts on Battling Jim. That is a duck in any era of boxing. Stop clinging to double standards.

[Ivich]

Yet he never fought them as champion. He could have had those fights made easily in France or elsewhere, but it never happened and he never wanted it. His own quotes on the subject regarding color line and being the only black champion support the actual quotes by Jeannette, Langford and McVey on the subject. Historians collectively agree he didn’t give them a legitimate shot at the title. You insist on glossing over the fact that Jeannette defeated Battling Jim twice that year before Johnson fought him, and he turned down $20k for Jeannette while settling for peanuts on Battling Jim. That is a duck in any era of boxing. Stop clinging to double standards.

Johnson was a fighter not a promoter if those fights would have been profitable why didn't promoters put them on? In which locations could Johnson have made profitable defences against this trio?
Jeannette made a statement after the twice failure of his proposed fights with Johnson fell through saying he did not blame Johnson for the defences not happening. Now I've asked you to provide a quote from McVey ripping Johnson for not defending against him will you now produce one?
Which offer of $20,000 do you say Johnson turned down to defend against Jeannette?Please provide details?
Johnson received about $5000 for the Battling Jim bout.
You make sweeping general statements but they are always light on details For example when I explained that Kid Cotton's record was a dismal losing one and that he never merited a title shot you popped up with Jack Murray saying well Johnson fought him and his record was poor? Unaware that the Murray v Johnson was an exhibition.