Made a list of the 25 greatest fighters of the last 25 years...how bad is it?

[billeau2]

Yes you did say he was a outstanding fighter go and read back the post I quoted.

I don't care what "people said". "People said" Jeff Lacy was the next Mike Tyson. "People said" the world was flat.

Zab Judah has never had elite skills. Never, ever, ever. He's never had "ring smarts".

Judah "breezed through" the literal bums he fought before Tszyu (outside of Witter) then the same Judah got a gift against Corley a few fights later and then lost to Cory Spinks.

Judah was a "shell" in 2006? Ok. Like I said his speed was an issue for a few rounds, after that it was a one sided beat down.

Yes Chad Dawson, good example. Neither have elite skills.

Basically, Judah and Mayweather aren't even close to comparable. Less so than Tszyu and Mayweather. Who are also different levels of fighters.

You have a real problem when people disagree with you...thats unfortunate. My intention regarding judah was to point out that he had skills that made him, at his best, a tough fight, NOT OUTCLASSED, by mayweather. Thats my opinion and if you don't like it, lump it! many boxing people feel the same way, it does not matter that you dont respect that opinion. I am not even going to check the post you are referring to, its not my intenion to get into a war of quotes, that is silly. If I indicated that I thought Judah was an elite fighter, GIVEN HIS CAREER TRAJECTORY and not that he had potential elite level skills at one time I misspoke. it takes more than skills and one cannot call a fighter elite when they fumble as Judah has: regardless of what was said, it was always my intention to indicate that: Judah with his natural ability at his zenith would not be outclassed by mayweather. Deal with it we disagree, get over it is ok.

you don't care what people think huh? your quite arrogant in this regard. I tend to not just throw aside the past, I like to look and analyze why a fighter went a different direction. Some guys like Lacy did get exposed and its obvious, other guys like Tyson had personal problems that caused them issues in the ring. So because you don't care doesn't mean it isn't valid to consider circumstances. Judah was at one time a very dangerous fighter, if you disagree that he would be a fight for Mayweather then its duly noted.

Do you have any other information that would shed light on this debate? or is there another reason you feel the need to repeat your opinion...Its a respected opinion for sure, I disagree, I am far from the only one who disagrees, a lot of people felt judah at that time was a tough fight. So its not the Flat Earth society we are talking about.

[billeau2]

It's also the most meaningful and valid way to determine a skill level. If a fighter looks good against sub par opposition but mediocre or terrible against A level competition that tells you everything you need to know when determining their skill level.


Excatly what level was he on when he fought Tszyu other than his hype? He hadn't fought or beaten anybody worth mentioning. If anything he was more accomplished and proven as a fighter when he fought Mayweather opposed to when he fought Tszyu.

I don't think anybody knows what level he was on when he fought Tszu...What level was nando on when he fought Trinidad? In both cases the guys brought along had about twenty something fights and had handled themselves in such a matter that they were ready to step up.

Its debatable whether it was Judah's hype (I know he was hyped I acknowledge that) or Zoo's ability that stopped Judah. I believe that Zoo was good enough to stop him and that Judah could not deal with that situation. Subsequent to that fight Judah never looked the same. The reason this is different is when a guy is taken apart in a fight, like Lacy, it shows that a lack of skills, and the hype was responsable for the loss. Judah wasn't taken apart, or shown to lack skills he was caught by an excellent set up punch.

Also, subsequent to that fight guys on a level that Judah had not had problems with (baldimere for example) easily outboxed and outpunched him. That also tells me that something happened to Judah psychologically.

[IronDanHamza]

You have a real problem when people disagree with you...thats unfortunate. My intention regarding judah was to point out that he had skills that made him, at his best, a tough fight, NOT OUTCLASSED, by mayweather. Thats my opinion and if you don't like it, lump it! many boxing people feel the same way, it does not matter that you dont respect that opinion. I am not even going to check the post you are referring to, its not my intenion to get into a war of quotes, that is silly. If I indicated that I thought Judah was an elite fighter, GIVEN HIS CAREER TRAJECTORY and not that he had potential elite level skills at one time I misspoke. it takes more than skills and one cannot call a fighter elite when they fumble as Judah has: regardless of what was said, it was always my intention to indicate that: Judah with his natural ability at his zenith would not be outclassed by mayweather. Deal with it we disagree, get over it is ok.

you don't care what people think huh? your quite arrogant in this regard. I tend to not just throw aside the past, I like to look and analyze why a fighter went a different direction. Some guys like Lacy did get exposed and its obvious, other guys like Tyson had personal problems that caused them issues in the ring. So because you don't care doesn't mean it isn't valid to consider circumstances. Judah was at one time a very dangerous fighter, if you disagree that he would be a fight for Mayweather then its duly noted.

Do you have any other information that would shed light on this debate? or is there another reason you feel the need to repeat your opinion...Its a respected opinion for sure, I disagree, I am far from the only one who disagrees, a lot of people felt judah at that time was a tough fight. So its not the Flat Earth society we are talking about.

Because the fact "people" thought he was Whitaker with power means nothing but he was extremely overhyped.

Guess what? "People" said Broner was Mayweather but was great offense.

It's irrelevant. Fact is neither were anything close.

Another fact is, Judah never had elite skills, never had elite ring smarts, the only thing "elite" about Judah is his Handspeed.

Obviously beating an undefeated Judah was a good win. Tszyu's only real impressive win.

But again, beating 2001 Zab Judah isn't beating someone on Mayweather's level. Nor close.

[Suckmedry]

What level?

Oh i dont know, maybe winning world titles in 2 weight classes? Beating other guys who won world titles? Fighting on HBO and PPV?

You guys are just insane. Judah had a fantastic career. No he wasn't an ATG and probably shouldn't be in the HoF either but it was a damn good career...

and my apologies if you have boxed before...but usually people who have dont talk down about fighters so much

[IronDanHamza]

Oh i dont know, maybe winning world titles in 2 weight classes? Beating other guys who won world titles? Fighting on HBO and PPV?

You guys are just insane. Judah had a fantastic career. No he wasn't an ATG and probably shouldn't be in the HoF either but it was a damn good career...

and my apologies if you have boxed before...but usually people who have dont talk down about fighters so much

So you're saying you have to elite skills to do those things?

Obviously like I said when I "talk down" about fighters it's in comparison to the elite ot the elite.

I respect all fighters and know how hard it is to fight.

[joseph5620]

I don't think anybody knows what level he was on when he fought Tszu...What level was nando on when he fought Trinidad? In both cases the guys brought along had about twenty something fights and had handled themselves in such a matter that they were ready to step up.

Its debatable whether it was Judah's hype (I know he was hyped I acknowledge that) or Zoo's ability that stopped Judah. I believe that Zoo was good enough to stop him and that Judah could not deal with that situation. Subsequent to that fight Judah never looked the same. The reason this is different is when a guy is taken apart in a fight, like Lacy, it shows that a lack of skills, and the hype was responsable for the loss. Judah wasn't taken apart, or shown to lack skills he was caught by an excellent set up punch.

Also, subsequent to that fight guys on a level that Judah had not had problems with (baldimere for example) easily outboxed and outpunched him. That also tells me that something happened to Judah psychologically.

It was a combination of both things. But the main point is that Judah was not and has never been on Mayweather's level. Not even close.