Rating Frazier

[Holtol]

Many probably are, but it seems likely Holyfield needed them to put on weight he apparently thought he needed.

What PED's was Lewis on? Im not trying to be facetious, but I don't recall packages being sent to his house and rumors constantly swirling around him his entire heavyweight career.

I think a lot of athletes get away with taking peds and some don't get away with it.

[IronDanHamza]

Simple, they beat more big names. Charles beat Louis, Walcott, Moore, Maxim and Bivins and Patterson beat Johansson, Bonavena, Chuvalo and Moore. They were just better boxers than Big George. Charles would pick Foreman apart, much like Young did. Only Charles had a better punch than Young.

I don't see how beating Johansson, Chuvalo, Bonavena and Moore is better than beating Fraizer X2, Norton, Chuvalo and Lyle all in 5 rounds or less aswell AND coming back 17 years later to win a world title.

I also don't see how beating Louis, Walcott, Moore, Maxim and Bivins is better than those wins either. Aswell as considering the stage of career some of those fighters were in.

[JAB5239]

I think a lot of athletes get away with taking peds and some don't get away with it.

I understand and agree with you. But we're talking about heavyweights here. One was a super heavyweight as an amateur, the other a light heavyweight. There is strong evidence suggesting one took PED's, while there is no evidence against the other.

[Pastrano]

I don't see how beating Johansson, Chuvalo, Bonavena and Moore is better than beating Fraizer X2, Norton, Chuvalo and Lyle all in 5 rounds or less aswell AND coming back 17 years later to win a world title.

I also don't see how beating Louis, Walcott, Moore, Maxim and Bivins is better than those wins either. Aswell as considering the stage of career some of those fighters were in.

Walcott, Moore and Bivins were all prime and Louis is still Louis, prime or not. The man hit hard. As I already said, Frazier was just too small for Foreman and Lyle, Lyle made the mistake of brawling with a stronger man-and nearly stopped him! Lyle was nothing more than a big puncher. Chuvalo was stopped on cuts, Patterson outpointed him.

[JAB5239]

Walcott, Moore and Bivins were all prime and Louis is still Louis, prime or not. The man hit hard. As I already said, Frazier was just too small for Foreman and Lyle, Lyle made the mistake of brawling with a stronger man-and nearly stopped him! Lyle was nothing more than a big puncher. Chuvalo was stopped on cuts, Patterson outpointed him.

I would very much disagree with the part in bold.

[Holtol]

I understand and agree with you. But we're talking about heavyweights here. One was a super heavyweight as an amateur, the other a light heavyweight. There is strong evidence suggesting one took PED's, while there is no evidence against the other.

I don't like to watch sports that way Jab. I don't like to sit and think how things would be different if certain players were not on peds. It's to complicated and im not phychic, If you want you can try to figure it out.

[barfly12]

Frazier

Holyfield above Frazier? Holmes and him to close to call. I would go with Joe on that one. Ditto Marciano.

[IronDanHamza]

Walcott, Moore and Bivins were all prime and Louis is still Louis, prime or not. The man hit hard. As I already said, Frazier was just too small for Foreman and Lyle, Lyle made the mistake of brawling with a stronger man-and nearly stopped him! Lyle was nothing more than a big puncher. Chuvalo was stopped on cuts, Patterson outpointed him.

If you mean Moore when Charles beat him they wern't at HW and he certainly wasn't prime when Patterson beat him. Walcott wasn't really in his prime either he was near the end of his career. Louisis Louis but he clearly wasn't remotely close to his prime at all.

Size aside he was the Lineal HW champion and undefeated and Foreman destoryed him.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I will never agree to Pattersons resume and Charles' HW resume being better than Foreman's.

[Joeyzagz]

You don't lose your power with age, you lose your ability to land it.

Tuia was too slow to get inside Lewis's reach to land cleanly. Morrison was a bad joke who would have lost to Cooney. Bruno fell short every time he stepped up. Briggs' power is grossly overrated, usually by people trying to make Lewis look good. Vitali is solid puncher but not a tremendous puncher and with Tyson you can use the same argument that you're using with Louis.....you don't get to have it both ways.

Poet

Tyson was still knocking everyone out at 35 years old. Louis, who was facing a similar level of competition, was scraping by with decisions.

To be honest, that version of Tyson isnt evenTop 5 of the hardest punchers Lennox faced, But still better than the best Marciano faced.

[IronDanHamza]

I would very much disagree with the part in bold.

What's your view on Charles and Patterson being ranked above Foreman at HW?