The greatest fighters of each nation.

[StarshipTrooper]

Tua is a New Zealand citizen, and that's all that counts. It's your citizenship that determines what country you represent.

That would make all Pueto Ricans Americans as all Pueto Ricans automatically hold US citizenship. Anyone want to claim Benitez as a US fighter? You can over complicate this stuff if you like but I choose not to.....The place you're born is the place you're from. Lennox Lweis is a Brit not a Candian ect.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

Settle down Princess, I only asked you to tell me what you know about Harry Donovan. It's not my fault that you don't actually know anything and can't admit it, is it now?

Hmmmmm, I do believe I said he was a club fighter with an inflated record. Don't you think that about sums him up? Why are you're diapers in a twist just because he's the best your country has produced?

Poet

[Dave Rado]

The place you're born is the place you're from. Lennox Lweis is a Brit not a Candian ect.

Poet

So in the case of all the US Servicemen who have had children with their American wives while in Germany, their kids are Germans?

I was born while my father was on a one year secondment to a country that I left when I was 1 month old. I know next to nothing about that country, my parents have no links with it, I have no links with it, I have no memories of it, but you think that is my country?

That's just ridiculous.

As for the Puerto Rican example, it's an exception that proves the rule, similar to the Scottish or Welsh examples brought up earlier: if you are Puerto Rican, you are both from Puerto Rico and the US, just like a Scot is both Scottish and British or a Welshman is both Welsh and British.

Navratilova played for the US in both the Davis Cup and the Olympics - do you think she should have been banned from doing so?

[StarshipTrooper]

So in the case of all the US Servicemen who have had children with their American wives while in Germany, their kids are Germans?

I was born while my father was on a one year secondment to a country that I left when I was 1 month old. I know next to nothing about that country, my parents have no links with it, I have no links with it, I have no memories of it, but you think that is my country?

That's just ridiculous.

As for the Puerto Rican example, it's an exception that proves the rule, similar to the Scottish or Welsh examples brought up earlier: if you are Puerto Rican, you are both from Puerto Rico and the US, just like a Scot is both Scottish and British or a Welshman is both Welsh and British.

Navratilova played for the US in both the Davis Cup and the Olympics - do you think she should have been banned from doing so?

I would say that the case of servicemen serving overseas is the exception that proves the rule.....those aren't cases where someone is born in Germany to German parents (in the same manner that Tua was born in Samoa to Samoan parents). Let's use some common sense here, rather than try to come up with minutia and asking "is this or that an exception?" That's rather like debating how many angels might caper upon the head of a pin. I would also point out that I included Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England all under the rubrik of "United Kingdom" as opposed to splitting hairs over people's nationalistic sensibilities. Pueto Rico, at least, is only a quasi-Amercian protectorate rather than a full-fledged part of the US in the way that Scotland is part of the UK.

Poet

[Dave Rado]

I would say that the case of servicemen serving overseas is the exception that proves the rule.....those aren't cases where someone is born in Germany to German parents (in the same manner that Tua was born in Samoa to Samoan parents). Let's use some common sense here, rather than try to come up with minutia and asking "is this or that an exception?" That's rather like debating how many angels might caper upon the head of a pin. I would also point out that I included Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and England all under the rubrik of "United Kingdom" as opposed to splitting hairs over people's nationalistic sensibilities. Pueto Rico, at least, is only a quasi-Amercian protectorate rather than a full-fledged part of the US in the way that Scotland is part of the UK.

Poet

The point is that with the exception of protectorates like Puerto Rico, citizens of a country are regarded by almost everyone as being from that country. That's why Navratilova is regarded as American now, and why she was allowed to represent the US in the Olympics and the Davis Cup. That's why Tua is listed as a New Zealander in boxrec, Wikipedia, and all other official sources.

And literally millions of people are born while their expat parents are posted overseas, not just Servicemen's children, so it's a pretty major exception. My sister is currently living in ****kok, where there is a British expat community in the thousands, most of whom stay less that two years, and hundreds of whom have children there every year, but none of them are regarded by anyone as being Thai.

[StarshipTrooper]

The point is that with the exception of protectorates like Puerto Rico, citizens of a country are regarded by almost everyone as being from that country. That's why Navratilova is regarded as American now, and why she was allowed to represent the US in the Olympics and the Davis Cup. That's why Tua is listed as a New Zealander in boxrec, Wikipedia, and all other official sources.

Navratilova may well hold an American citizenship but she's always going to be a Czech to me. Same thing with Olga Korbett who's running a gym in Arizona: She's a Russian and will always be so. Bobby Fischer was granted Icelandic citizenship and assumed room temperature there. Is an Icelander? Hell no! He's American pure and simple.

Poet

[Dave Rado]

Navratilova may well hold an American citizenship but she's always going to be a Czech to me.

That's not how she's classified by any sporting body, which is why she was allowed to officially represent the US in the Davis Cup and Olympics. It's not how she's classified in any official sources such as encyclopaedias. And it's not how she's regarded by most Americans, who regard her as a Czech-American, just as they regard Marciano as an Italian-American.

[Jeff Da Maori]

Hissy fit? I'm not the one who's national pride has been offended to the point where he's whinging over a fighter not being listed from his country If, in fact, you DON'T give a rip over whether Tua is from Samoa, New Zealand, or Outer Mongolia then, in fact, it's YOU who's looking like a tool for making a big deal over it :grin9:

PS. ****picking over someone not proofreading their post is the last refuge for the Nimrod who has no argument of any substance :hahahaha9:

Poet

Ok bro. I am gonna give this one more try because you are seemingly a bit slow on the uptake...

I don't care whether there is a fighter from NZ listed or not. In fact, I would rather you left it blank than make a ridiculous choice in an effort to look impressive to those of us who aren't historians. When I asked you about your pick, you didn't have anything remotely resembling a credible reason and changed tack, choosing to get aggressive (it's the internet and you're in your 40's. Cong****) and attempting to pick a fight where there isn't one.

PS. I only poked fun at your lack of proof reading because you had arrogantly told a different poster to try reading because he was unaware of an Australian boxer on your list.

Kia Kaha bro

[StarshipTrooper]

That's not how she's classified by any sporting body, which is why she was allowed to officially represent the US in the Davis Cup and Olympics. It's not how she's classified in any official sources such as encyclopaedias. And it's not how she's regarded by most Americans, who regard her as a Czech-American, just as they regard Marciano as an Italian-American.

Well, to be honest I really couldn't care less what sort of legalistic classifications she holds any more than I would if or when the Klitschkos obtain German citizenship.....they still aren't going to be Krauts no matter what their passport says. I prefer common sense over legalisms and I don't buy into "citizen of the world" internationalism where you call yourself whatever you take it into your head to call yourself: A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Poet

[Dave Rado]

Well, to be honest I really couldn't care less what sort of legalistic classifications she holds any more than I would if or when the Klitschkos obtain German citizenship.....they still aren't going to be Krauts no matter what their passport says. I prefer common sense over legalisms and I don't buy into "citizen of the world" internationalism where you call yourself whatever you take it into your head to call yourself: A rose by any other name is still a rose.

Poet

You imply that it's easy to get US citizenship. It's not. Millions of illegal Mexican immigrants will testify to that.

And if you want to classify boxers according to your personal rules that almost no one else in the world accepts, including absolutely no sporting bodies, then that just makes you a contrarian, but in the context of boxing history it's pointless. If a classification has no general support then it's useless. All classifications have to be based on a reasonable level of concensus in order to be of any use.