How great was Jack Dempsey?

[solidman]

Neither were many of Jack' s title defense. Dempsey was a light heavy to cursuier at his best weight of 182- 190

He missed two big matches ( Wills and Greb ) and was not an active champ.

The Tunney matches could have gone either way? Tunney won at least 16 of 20 rounds!

Yeah the usual truth does not apply with some Dempsey fans. Get a clue Bill.


Dempsey manager said, Sam, we were not looking for someone as good as you . Something like that. Jeannete was sub, in the ring and ready to go. Dempsey wanted of part of the old man.

This is all true

[Willie Pep 229]

I love Dempsey. I love his story. But i just think he let himself down as champion taking 2 years off and then taking 3 years off. Unacceptable.

The first two year hiatus was all Kearns' doing. He was trying to squeeze Fitzsimmons and Rickard out. Kearns wanted both his manager's cut and also to be his own promoter.

The three year hiatus was Dempsey breaking off with Kearns.

Kearns screwed up the period between July 1921 to July 1923 so badly that when Kearns tried to call off the Gibbons fight at the last minute, in July 1923 (Shelby), for Shelby's failure to meet the final 100K of the 300K guarantee, Dempsey told Kearns to go ahead home, he would stay and fight anyway. Dempsey-Kearns unofficially ended that day.

Dempsey, still under contract with Kearns, then went ahead and took the Firpo fight with Rickard, but dealt with Rickard directly (with Floyd Fitzsimmons help) and then stiffed Kearns of his 50% for the Firpo fight. (Kearns owed Dempsey money.)

They fell out, an into law suits.

Dempsey then stopped fighting until his 10 year contract with Kearns finally expired in Janurary 1926. Dempsey then moved Floyd Fitzsimmons in as his front man and Rickard as the promoter for Tunney.

Blame Kearns. Not Dempsey.

[billeau2]

I think Dempsey-Wills in 1922 was a pick 'um. I would pick Dempsey, but still see it as a pick 'um.

Would have been a 'fight of the century' with multiple KDs and not gone pass four.

By 1926 Both had slipped but Wills more. Dempsey by a KO in the middle rounds.

Here is where I run into problems: The colored championship had slightly different conditions. The guys fought each other many times. Hard to compare to facing a man once, twice, maybe three times. Wills against Sharkey, Firpo and Uzkudan, maybe the best regular heavyweights he fought was not exceptional, though perhaps he was late on in his career. I don't see how he rises above these performances to beat Dempsey in a small series of fights... If they fought more than that? Wills beat some of the best fighters in series, and I do not know if they were past prime, or not, but it does show he was able to win under those conditions.

Dempsey would not give any opponent a lot of time to figure him out... It is one of the things that makes him so formidable. Even a medoicre fighter like Joyce, because of his pressure tactics got away with a few wins against opponents who turned out to develop into decent fighters... Imagine Dempsey coming in like Tyson, and trying to get him figured out. Tunney did this but was Tunney lol.

[billeau2]

I love Dempsey. I love his story. But i just think he let himself down as champion taking 2 years off and then taking 3 years off. Unacceptable.

Imagine being suddenly put in silk pajamas, given riches that no sports figure had ever dreamed of... Babe Ruth and Jack Dempsey were the first athletes to attain such status. As good as both men were, the world of sports had not yet been admonished by the likes of Marvin Hagler who famously said, "you do not stay hungry going to bed in silk pajamas."

As good as both men were they had to deal with tremendous temptation... Ruth almost killed himself several times gorging himself on bad food and pop... And jack? he had come up having to fight for his supper, and suddenly he owned a steak house in the middle of the woyld (as they say in New York). I agree with you that Dempsey took some easy roads, but I can only imagine the temptation he must have been subject to!

[travestyny]

1. In 1922-23 no one would promote the Wills fight.

What about when Rickard wanted to hold the bout in Montreal at this time and Dempsey made up the excuse that he couldn't get ready in time?

[travestyny]

There is a real argument that Dempsey wasn't as great as everyone claims.

His trainer admit to using something like bicycle tape in the Willard fight. And others seemed to also believe something was up with his wraps (no, I don't mean plaster or a spike).
He ducked Wills for sure. Ran away from Jeannette in a charity bout. Admit that he was afraid of Langford. Maybe he can be forgiven for not wanting to fight Greb.
Was very inactive as a champion.

[Dr Z]

There is a real argument that Dempsey wasn't as great as everyone claims.

His trainer admit to using something like bicycle tape in the Willard fight. And others seemed to also believe something was up with his wraps (no, I don't mean plaster or a spike).
He ducked Wills for sure. Ran away from Jeannette in a charity bout. Admit that he was afraid of Langford. Maybe he can be forgiven for not wanting to fight Greb.
Was very inactive as a champion.

When you are right which is not often, you are right. The tape can be seen on Dempsey's gloves in photos. Too much tape can make your fist feel like a rock. Willard found a bolt metal in the ring and keot it for life. Likely something was up.

[travestyny]

When you are right which is not often, you are right. The tape can be seen on Dempsey's gloves in photos. Too much tape can make your fist feel like a rock. Willard found a bolt metal in the ring and keot it for life. Likely something was up.

I don't believe the metal spike story (or anything you say), but the story about using bicycle tape or something like it seems credible, and there are a good deal of respectable boxing people who also deem it to be likely what happened.

[JAB5239]

I don't believe the metal spike story (or anything you say), but the story about using bicycle tape or something like it seems credible, and there are a good deal of respectable boxing people who also deem it to be likely what happened.

This is just a ****** story. I question Dempsey plenty, but this story is ridiculous. Ridiculous because it is impossible to believe no one say Dempsey holding an iron bolt the size of a cigar in his 4oz gloves in not just the first round, not just the second round, but straight thru until the end of the fight at the end of the third? 85,000 people, and no one saw a thing!!! Please!!!!

[Willie Pep 229]

If there was anything odd about Dempsey's wraps he sure had big balls sitting there before the crowd waiting to put his gloves on.

There was nothing in his wraps but legend.

Before the Willard fight.

dempsey_jw_wraps.jpg