Fury's retirements and the lineal championship

[JAB5239]

There's no credible reason to deny the lineal. Some people have said they don't see the purpose of it. I can relate to that partially. There are many times where the lineal doesn't have to be in play. The lineal is there to resolve conflicts when needed. It doesn't mean that it has to be institutionalized and put forth as another title. It is there to resolve dispute in the simplest of manners.

those hostile to the lineal are shooting themselves in the foot as fans. Again, I'm sympathetic to the argument that at times it is useless. I keep a hammer in my tool set at times I don't need it. The real idiocy is not understanding how the lineal resolves Championship status when needed. I don't care what Fury did, when ring co-opted the title.. I can call myself Superman doesn't mean I am. The lineal never belonged to any fighter, or any institution with special interests. Idiots just won't get this. Hence to know how queen bee feels among others is a bit of a relief.

Great post!!

[billeau2]

Great post!!

Thanks J,

I don't think people realize what happens when you Believe that institutions have to legitimatize all authority. A prime example would be New Jersey which almost managed to require martial artists to register with the state for a license.

the real problem with this is that most martial arts lineages survive under a different structure. And we know, especially during recent times with a lot of the folks who do Brazilian jiu-jitsu, that martial arts lineages can be self- policing.

the problem being once you ask government to handle something you cannot go back. Whereas certain traditional martial arts are very strict about policing lineage others are not and should be. The solution might be for everybody to get on board and police their own organization. You just can't do this though once you make a martial arts commitment something that gives power to local state Authority

[Marchegiano]

That's basically all it amounts to nowadays. And the reason I don't approve of the concept is that, in my experience as a boxing fan, lineal status is only invoked when belt holders are looking for an excuse to not fight other belt holders, or promoters are trying to sell crappy fights like Fury vs Schwarz as more than they actually are.

Yup!

The biggest issue with lineal is the quality of historian who first presented the concept. Lineal is just one of many examples of when Nat Fleischer did not know the answer he simply made **** up. If you take the concept through history, **** man you've probably read my threads on that. You can see a traditional belt. You get a sense of what Nat meant, but when Nat himself or the mag he left behind justified their stance of who the champion was and why, that's where the it's just made up nonsense that doesn't actually fit the reality of the strongest claim era or its traditions.

Ugh I call you out. [Insert shove at the weigh-in here]

Tell me you believe that a mere 20 years from now, Anthony Joshua will be recognized as one of the former HW Champion of the World.

Fix my list below. Add whomever you like, but remember it's 2045 and this is a history forum.

Former HW Champions of the World:

Lewis
W. Klitschko
Fury
Usyk

I say AJ doesn't make the list. Unfair no doubt. But Packey McFarland's and Charley Burley's have always existed in boxing. AJ is destined for that group.

That's the power of the lineal title. So long as the sanctioning bodies stay numerous and competitive with eachother (an inevitability) the lineal title will carry forward as the only reasonable (non-political) designation.

Their penchant for corruption makes every title suspect even when it isn't.

When it comes to declaring a champion the sanctioning bodies are less than the sum of their parts.

Here we have Pep be a case in point for how Ring propaganda controlled the narrative for generations. Some of my favorite posters thumbed this post too. All I got out of it is even recognizing the flaws in the nonsense that is lineal Pep would rather live in that delusion than face than reality Tyson�Fury's time as champion is a single strapper and will be held in that regard.

Lineal is bull**** that is of course a popularity contest and like you point out often held by the ***** left in the cold. It's also some real boxing nerd fandom bull****.

20 years from now not only will Joshua be seen as a champion but his having 3/4 the belts will always play in his favor and make for a strong argument he was the man post Wlad.

[JAB5239]

Thanks J,

I don't think people realize what happens when you Believe that institutions have to legitimatize all authority. A prime example would be New Jersey which almost managed to require martial artists to register with the state for a license.

the real problem with this is that most martial arts lineages survive under a different structure. And we know, especially during recent times with a lot of the folks who do Brazilian jiu-jitsu, that martial arts lineages can be self- policing.

the problem being once you ask government to handle something you cannot go back. Whereas certain traditional martial arts are very strict about policing lineage others are not and should be. The solution might be for everybody to get on board and police their own organization. You just can't do this though once you make a martial arts commitment something that gives power to local state Authority

What happens if you don't register with the state? Does that make one less of a martial artist? Or do you have to register just to train? Just a money grab in my opinion.

[QueensburyRules]

front.

the position you take on this reaffirms how true it is. Thank you for being the form idiot and confirming such. If this isn't proof i do not know what is!

- - Poor Billy. Ginsberg awaits thee forever more, forever more...

[max baer]

- - Poor Billy. Ginsberg awaits thee forever more, forever more...

ah ha ha queeny loves dishing it out!!!
I reckon it is because of all those drugs he used to hand out at the infirmary he couldn't resist taking a few uppers and downers and all the way rounders for himself and now he struggles to get on with his peers. Shine on you crazy diamond queeny. I like you! You are funny.

[kafkod]

Fans have the right to weigh in and use the power of consensus to do so. The ignorance has to do with people such as yourself who see this as an afront.

I don't see it as an affront, I see it as delusional magical thinking, fan cliques shouting into echo chambers online, thinking that "the world" or "the powers that be" are listening to them.

[kafkod]

Fury deserves a belt forever, so the Lineal is always his, even if he comes back and loses 10 more fights. He made the Lineal his own in the back-and-forth war with Prime, in his 30s, Wlad. Fury declined early due to extreme weight gain, excess drink, and excess uncastrated wild boar, but he is forever the Lineal Champion.

He is the only man to beat Wlad in Wlad's 30s, the only man to beat Chisora 3 times, the only man to beat prime Wilder, he also has an energy drink in multiple flavours. Nash out - His Most Majestic Majesty

I hadn't considered that. Maybe I need to think again about Tyson's lineal claim, and the results of both his fights with Usyk ....

[kafkod]

We have more data and more information than ever there's no problem keeping track of the lineal.

Ok, so prove it by using the lineal to explain how and why Wlad Klitschko became lineal champion,

[Nash out]

I hadn't considered that. Maybe I need to think again about Tyson's lineal claim, and the results of both his fights with Usyk ....

It's something that certainly has to be factored in. Nash out - His Most Majestic Majesty