Weakest HW Champ Of Them All

[JAB5239]

Ahem! Let me get uncomfortable here.

I was hard on you in another thread for no good reason. I apologize for that. Sometimes people have bad days, sometimes their behavior is inexplicable. I don't know what my excuse is--I usually just call myself an idiot and try to move forward. The deal is I am still going to admire you and value your boxing opinions more actually than my own, since I know yours are more informed. An apology is all I can do at this stage, so now I will move on as if nothing ever happened and you will move on however you wish.

I appreciate this but forget about it. It's water under the bridge. We all have bad days, and our opinions can vary. None of us are always right, nor always wrong. I like talking boxing, but I love learning just as much from an opposing view as long as it doesn't border on the ridiculous.

[QueensburyRules]

Lmao.....no wonder you won't post you list!!

- - Pearls before U swine don't know how to U BoxS stickys...dum and getting near the Zer0 mark IQ.

[JAB5239]

- - Pearls before U swine don't know how to U BoxS stickys...dum and getting near the Zer0 mark IQ.

Is this english?

[Marchegiano]

To say they were not champions!

Do you guys apply your same color line disparagement to the baseball greats as well?

Because, by your standards, we have to throw out the entire early history of American sport championships.

Seems to me a silly way to approach history.

Yes'sir, upholding world honors during a time period when certain people of the world are barred from participation is upholding propaganda.



There's nothing disrespectful about pointing out the Irish championship did not matter when the American and English titles did. Nothing disrespectful about being honest about a champion's talent pool. If a man held the colorline, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

You take no issue with the facts you just do not like the idea of them being presented without racist propaganda attached. If you did have a problem with the facts you'd've raised it by now, but, we've known each other for like a decade and not once have I seen Pep take issue with the fact the colorline happened or US centricity happened or that John L had to deal with an entire sport dispute let alone title.



John L fought mixed rules, tell me a post color-line champion who fought under a mix of lprrr and qb.

John L was called world champion by winning the American title and drawing the English title. What world champion post color line has the ability to draw another regional champion and use that draw to be crowned world champion?

John L refused to fight any black fighters for the title. What post color line champion can draw the color line?


How many mandos vs vols did John L fight? Oh that's right ... the question doesn't quite fit his time frame ... just everyone post color line's time frame.

John L fought Corbett because he was ranked 2 by ... The police Gazette? Who post colorline defended their title against a man rated by a bare knuckle authority?


You can call it silly but what it is, is honest. What we do when claim John belongs in the same category as Louis is misleading at best.



There are very clear similarities every world champion post color line shares that the pre-colorline champions know nothing about. But yeah, popping them into their own category and dealing with them honestly is silly. It's much better to pretend like Dempsey fought all comers and let fans figure out later he hide from black fighters.




I can totes see why it is less silly to have them all in the same category and constantly make excuses for the racists.

I can see why it is less goofy to call a man a world champion and let fans find out on their own the world title was just US+England exclusively than to call him the US+English Intercon champion from the start.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes'sir, upholding world honors during a time period when certain people of the world are barred from participation is upholding propaganda.



There's nothing disrespectful about pointing out the Irish championship did not matter when the American and English titles did. Nothing disrespectful about being honest about a champion's talent pool. If a man held the colorline, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

You take no issue with the facts you just do not like the idea of them being presented without racist propaganda attached. If you did have a problem with the facts you'd've raised it by now, but, we've known each other for like a decade and not once have I seen Pep take issue with the fact the colorline happened or US centricity happened or that John L had to deal with an entire sport dispute let alone title.



John L fought mixed rules, tell me a post color-line champion who fought under a mix of lprrr and qb.

John L was called world champion by winning the American title and drawing the English title. What world champion post color line has the ability to draw another regional champion and use that draw to be crowned world champion?

John L refused to fight any black fighters for the title. What post color line champion can draw the color line?


How many mandos vs vols did John L fight? Oh that's right ... the question doesn't quite fit his time frame ... just everyone post color line's time frame.

John L fought Corbett because he was ranked 2 by ... The police Gazette? Who post colorline defended their title against a man rated by a bare knuckle authority?


You can call it silly but what it is, is honest. What we do when claim John belongs in the same category as Louis is misleading at best.



There are very clear similarities every world champion post color line shares that the pre-colorline champions know nothing about. But yeah, popping them into their own category and dealing with them honestly is silly. It's much better to pretend like Dempsey fought all comers and let fans figure out later he hide from black fighters.




I can totes see why it is less silly to have them all in the same category and constantly make excuses for the racists.

I can see why it is less goofy to call a man a world champion and let fans find out on their own the world title was just US+England exclusively than to call him the US+English Intercon champion from the start.

Please leave me one.

[QueensburyRules]

Yes'sir, upholding world honors during a time period when certain people of the world are barred from participation is upholding propaganda.



There's nothing disrespectful about pointing out the Irish championship did not matter when the American and English titles did. Nothing disrespectful about being honest about a champion's talent pool. If a man held the colorline, there's nothing wrong with pointing that out.

You take no issue with the facts you just do not like the idea of them being presented without racist propaganda attached. If you did have a problem with the facts you'd've raised it by now, but, we've known each other for like a decade and not once have I seen Pep take issue with the fact the colorline happened or US centricity happened or that John L had to deal with an entire sport dispute let alone title.



John L fought mixed rules, tell me a post color-line champion who fought under a mix of lprrr and qb.

John L was called world champion by winning the American title and drawing the English title. What world champion post color line has the ability to draw another regional champion and use that draw to be crowned world champion?

John L refused to fight any black fighters for the title. What post color line champion can draw the color line?


How many mandos vs vols did John L fight? Oh that's right ... the question doesn't quite fit his time frame ... just everyone post color line's time frame.

John L fought Corbett because he was ranked 2 by ... The police Gazette? Who post colorline defended their title against a man rated by a bare knuckle authority?


You can call it silly but what it is, is honest. What we do when claim John belongs in the same category as Louis is misleading at best.



There are very clear similarities every world champion post color line shares that the pre-colorline champions know nothing about. But yeah, popping them into their own category and dealing with them honestly is silly. It's much better to pretend like Dempsey fought all comers and let fans figure out later he hide from black fighters.




I can totes see why it is less silly to have them all in the same category and constantly make excuses for the racists.

I can see why it is less goofy to call a man a world champion and let fans find out on their own the world title was just US+England exclusively than to call him the US+English Intercon champion from the start.

- - John L put the Two Heavy World Titles in American Culture in the same fashion that Fitzsimmons and Corbett put the World Heavy Title in World Cultures.

Plenty of black/white/latino fighters fighting each other for titles or otherwise from the beginning of modern boxing in the 1700s when the World Title defaulted to the English Title

[max baer]

To say they were not champions!

Do you guys apply your same color line disparagement to the baseball greats as well?

Because, by your standards, we have to throw out the entire early history of American sport championships.

Seems to me a silly way to approach history.

willie you are right it was silly to say that. I was being flippant and it was silly. The history of boxing was much more nuanced and complex. I was being silly I had just watched this and got it a bit wrong. It was like queeny being compared to burt sugar.
seriously though i was wrong but good to spur debate,
watching this i just love america's history. Such spirited history!

[Willie Pep 229]

willie you are right it was silly to say that. I was being flippant and it was silly. The history of boxing was much more nuanced and complex. I was being silly I had just watched this and got it a bit wrong. It was like queeny being compared to burt sugar.
seriously though i was wrong but good to spur debate,
watching this i just love america's history. Such spirited history!

Great video. I watched Johnson and Dempsey so far.

[Marchegiano]

willie you are right it was silly to say that. I was being flippant and it was silly. The history of boxing was much more nuanced and complex. I was being silly I had just watched this and got it a bit wrong. It was like queeny being compared to burt sugar.
seriously though i was wrong but good to spur debate,
watching this i just love america's history. Such spirited history!

You didn't, I did. You said they're weak champions. I said they're not even champions. Willie cried but made no attempt at the logic used. You agreed with Willie because you watched a Youtube video.


There's a reason why Willie immediately asked me to leave him alone. All he has for his argument is "But dis is how de racist classified history before us doe" and "Don't pick on me Marchegiano"



You should stay out of it and let the big boys play. If you watched a YT video and it provided you with anything you don't know then sit to the side and let the knowers speak.



You didn't say anything "silly". I did, and Pep's being a little baby ***** about my points for a good reason. He knows who is whose son here.

[QueensburyRules]

- - With toofless Leon being the weakest of modern champs, and Marvin Hart being the weakest of the oltimers, that's a tough call whether the Leon who whooped Ali could beat the Marv who whooped Jack Johnson.

What if that Ali and JJ fought each other on that fateful night of infamy, who U got...