Top 5 Middleweights.....Hopkins?

[JAB5239]

I think the vast majority would agree Greb, Robinson, Monzon and Hagler are the Mount Rushmore of middleweight greats. Does Bernard Hopkins have a claim to being rated fifth? The IBRO has him 8th. Is there an argument he should be rated above Mickey Walker, Bob Fitzsimmons or Stanley Ketchel at Middleweight?

[max baer]

I think the vast majority would agree Greb, Robinson, Monzon and Hagler are the Mount Rushmore of middleweight greats. Does Bernard Hopkins have a claim to being rated fifth? The IBRO has him 8th. Is there an argument he should be rated above Mickey Walker, Bob Fitzsimmons or Stanley Ketchel at Middleweight?

you know you love the slapper jab!!!???
what about the slapper???
Never lost?
What say you.....by the way he never lost?
Super Joe.

[JAB5239]

you know you love the slapper jab!!!???
what about the slapper???
Never lost?
What say you.....by the way he never lost?
Super Joe.

He never fought at middleweight. If he had that resume at middleweight he'd never be in any conversation as a top 10 all time great let alone top 5.

[max baer]

He never fought at middleweight. If he had that resume at middleweight he'd never be in any conversation as a top 10 all time great let alone top 5.

oh yeah he was super middle weight. I was supposing that many boxers fluctuate around middle and super middle and he fought a few middle weights.
I think jab we can both totally agree that super joe was in top 5 super middleweights ever. perhaps number one.

[JAB5239]

oh yeah he was super middle weight. I was supposing that many boxers fluctuate around middle and super middle and he fought a few middle weights.
I think jab we can both totally agree that super joe was in top 5 super middleweights ever. perhaps number one.

I'd concede to that.

[IronDanHamza]

I would say no.

[Willow The Wisp]

My 2 cents (and worth every penny!!!!!!):

All-Time Middleweights - Modern Era

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.**** Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan
101.Jermain Taylor
102.Ben "Belter" Brown
103.Steve Collins
104.Denny "Bulldog" Harrington
105.Leo Lomski
106.John "The Beast" Mugabi
107.Frank Moody
108.William "Gorilla" Jones
109.Kenny Watkins
110.George Rooke
111.Evelio "Kid" Turnero
112.Frank Battaglia
113.Johnny Howard
114.John David Jackson
115.Frankie Schoell
116.Elsworth "Spider" Webb
117.Joey Archer
118.Steve Belloise
119.Antonio Fernandez
120.Billy Soose
121.Mustafa Hamsho
122.Eduardo Lausse
123.Ignasio Ara
124.Ruben "Hurricane" Carter
125.Jean Claude Bouttier
126.Edward McGlinchey
127.Percey "Pal" Reed
128.Rory Calhoun
129.Ben Jeby
130.Cyrille Delannoit
131.Ralph "Tiger" Jones
132.Rocky Castellani
133.Bobby Boyd
134.Jackie Clark
135.Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts
136.Herol "Bomber" Graham
137.Jock Malone
138.Laurent Dauthuille
139.Bert Lytell
140.Charley Joseph
141.Floentino Fernandez
142.Tiberio Mitri
143.Juan Domingo Roldan
144.Yama Bahama
145.Willie "The Worm" Monroe
146.Tony Mundine Sr.
147.Fred Henneberry
148.Willis "Shorty" Hogue
149.Solly Krieger
150.Reggie Johnson
151.Jack Hood
152.Gratien Tonna
153.Babe Risko
154.Felix Sturm
155.Kell Brook
156.Paul Pirrone
157.William Joppy
158.**** Turpin
159.Tony Sibson
160.Luis Folledo
161."Sugar" Ray Seales
162.Dwight Davidson
163.Tom Bogs
164.Carmen Barth
165.Sam Soliman
166.Keith Holmes
167.Tony Licata
168.Daniel Jacobs
169.Ossie Stewart
170.Salvatore Affinito
171.Lamar Parks
172.Artie Townie
173.Gene "Silent" Hairston
174.Daniel Geale
175.Miguel de Oliveira
176.Curtis Parker
177.Young Terry
178."Dangerous" Don Lee
179.Meyer Grace
180.Joe "Bolo" Blackwood
181.Al Trainor
182.Rosy Baker
183.Marco Antonio Rubio
184.Howard Eastman
185.Mel "Killer" Brown
186.Gomeo Brennan
187.Walter Cartier
188.Eugene "Cyclone" Hart
189.Wilford Scypion
190.Joe Carter
191.Nasim Max Cohen
192.Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
193.Atilio Sabatino
191.William "Caveman" Lee
192.Jackie Burke
193.Hacine Cherifi
194.Harry Balsamo
195.Jorge Castro
196.David Lemieux
197.Grzegorz Proksa
198.Johnny Rossi
199.Martin Murray
200.Kid Leonard

[GhostofDempsey]

I would rank him higher than Ketchel who I think was overrated. To a certain degree I think Hopkins reign at 160 was also somewhat overrated. He hid out at 160 padding his record against a long string of no-hopers, journeymen and long forgotten opponents instead of moving up to 168 sooner to face a prime Jones and Toney. His best wins at 160 were two blown up welters (Trinidad and Oscar). I would place LaMotta, Walker, Burley, Flowers, Langford, Fullmer, Tiger, and a few others ahead of Hopkins.

[Mr Mitts]

What garbage is this? Great how? For holding onto a phony title for years and defending against mandatory nonentities in some of the most boring fights ever? Hopkins is behind even Sugar Ray Leonard in WBW of middleweights. Leonard beats Hopkins pure and simple. Hearns would beat him too. Any list that places him above Langford and Greb is a from a tale told by an idiot. Willow has him placed about correctly in 13th place.

He only has a shot in the longevity category. A bore to watch, a boor to listen to, a bore to talk about.

[billeau2]

First of all, "Rolling stones" fighters like Archie Moorer, Hopkins, are always at a disadvantage when trying to place them in a division. It just makes it tough to compare them. GhostofDempsey made a great point along similar lines: Hopkins best wins were outside Middle Weight. Ghost refers specifically to Trinidad and De la Hoya, but the same logic applies to bigger fighters Hopkins beat, Pascal, Winky, Tarver...Of course Hagler and Monzon also had some resume issues as well with respect to quality of opponents, weight of opponents (Hagler)*, and to complicate matters, many (yours included) feel that Hopkins beat Taylor, essentially putting him in a better light when compared to the top of the Middle Weight pile.

*Leanard came up to fight Hagler, ditto for Tommy Hearns. Hopkins, like Monzon and Hagler was dominant against good solid opposition... fighters like Pavlick (for example). He shows well in the ring, BUT if we really scrutinize his early opposition he might be a notch below the very best because of the quality of opposition he fought... It is close, but I think this fact puts him below a bit.