Top 5 Middleweights.....Hopkins?

[The D3vil]

I think there's an argument based on the longevity & number of defenses in his reign.

I just don't think it's a good argument.

If he had beaten prime RJJ at 160, he'd be on the Mt. Rushmore.

Even if he'd beaten Toney when he was at 160, there'd be more arguments.

[JAB5239]

My 2 cents (and worth every penny!!!!!!):

All-Time Middleweights - Modern Era

1. Sam Langford
2. Harry Greb
3. Sugar Ray Robinson
4. Carlos Monzon
5. "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Bob Fitzsimmons
8. Marcel Cerdan
9. "Sugar" Ray Leonard
10. Roy Jones Jr.
11.Mickey Walker
12.Mike Gibbons
13.Bernard Hopkins
14.Jack “The Nonpareil” Dempsey
15 Gennadiy Golovkin
16.Jake LaMotta
17.Freddie Steel
18.Thomas Hearns
19.Tiger Flowers
20.Tony Zale
21.Charley Burley
22.Tommy Ryan
23.Marcel Thil
24.Charles "Kid" McCoy
25.Georges Carpentier
26.Rocky Graziano
27.Jeff Smith
28.**** Tiger
29.Roberto Duran
30.Billy Papke
32.Gene Fullmer
33.Holman Williams
34.Mike O’Dowd
35.Les Darcy
36.Eddie McGootry
37.Emile Griffith
38.Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
39.Eddie Booker
40.Frank Klaus
41.Al Hostak
42.Buck Crouse
43.Georgie Abrams
44.Lou Brouillard
45.Jimmy Clabby
46.Leo Houck
47.Vince Dundee
48.Rodrigo Valdez
49.Mike McCallum
50.Teddy Yarosz
51.Nino Benvenuti
52.Joey Giardello
53.James Toney
54.Ken Overlin
55.Al McCoy
56.Carmen Basilio
57."Bad" Benny Briscoe
58.Sergio Martinez
59.Laszlo Papp
60.Mike O'Dowd
61.Julian Jackson
62.George Chip
63.Lloyd Marshall
64.Carl "Bobo" Olsen
65.Ceferino Garcia
66.Fred Apostoli
67.Gustav Scholz
68.Kelly Pavlik
69.Michael Nunn
70.Randy Turpin
71.Charles Humez
72.Chris Eubank
73.Sumbu Kalambay
74.Nigel Benn
75.Johnny Wilson
76.Alan Minter
77.Ace Hudkins
78.Gerald McClellan
79.Paul Pender
80.Arthur Abraham
81.Robert Villemain
82.Ronald "Winky" Wright
83.Jermall Charlo
84.Vito Antuofermo
85.Rene DeVos
86.Jack Chase
87.Hugo Corro
88.Terry Downs
89.Holly Mims
90.Miguel Cotto
91.Dave Sands
92.Hugo Kelly
93.Jock "Rochdale Thunderbolt" McAvoy
94."Cyclone" Johnny Thompson
95.Dave Shade
95.George Benton
97.Clarence Alabama Kid
98."Allentown" Joe Gans
99.Young Ahearn
100.Mike Donovan
101.Jermain Taylor
102.Ben "Belter" Brown
103.Steve Collins
104.Denny "Bulldog" Harrington
105.Leo Lomski
106.John "The Beast" Mugabi
107.Frank Moody
108.William "Gorilla" Jones
109.Kenny Watkins
110.George Rooke
111.Evelio "Kid" Turnero
112.Frank Battaglia
113.Johnny Howard
114.John David Jackson
115.Frankie Schoell
116.Elsworth "Spider" Webb
117.Joey Archer
118.Steve Belloise
119.Antonio Fernandez
120.Billy Soose
121.Mustafa Hamsho
122.Eduardo Lausse
123.Ignasio Ara
124.Ruben "Hurricane" Carter
125.Jean Claude Bouttier
126.Edward McGlinchey
127.Percey "Pal" Reed
128.Rory Calhoun
129.Ben Jeby
130.Cyrille Delannoit
131.Ralph "Tiger" Jones
132.Rocky Castellani
133.Bobby Boyd
134.Jackie Clark
135.Bobby "Boogaloo" Watts
136.Herol "Bomber" Graham
137.Jock Malone
138.Laurent Dauthuille
139.Bert Lytell
140.Charley Joseph
141.Floentino Fernandez
142.Tiberio Mitri
143.Juan Domingo Roldan
144.Yama Bahama
145.Willie "The Worm" Monroe
146.Tony Mundine Sr.
147.Fred Henneberry
148.Willis "Shorty" Hogue
149.Solly Krieger
150.Reggie Johnson
151.Jack Hood
152.Gratien Tonna
153.Babe Risko
154.Felix Sturm
155.Kell Brook
156.Paul Pirrone
157.William Joppy
158.**** Turpin
159.Tony Sibson
160.Luis Folledo
161."Sugar" Ray Seales
162.Dwight Davidson
163.Tom Bogs
164.Carmen Barth
165.Sam Soliman
166.Keith Holmes
167.Tony Licata
168.Daniel Jacobs
169.Ossie Stewart
170.Salvatore Affinito
171.Lamar Parks
172.Artie Townie
173.Gene "Silent" Hairston
174.Daniel Geale
175.Miguel de Oliveira
176.Curtis Parker
177.Young Terry
178."Dangerous" Don Lee
179.Meyer Grace
180.Joe "Bolo" Blackwood
181.Al Trainor
182.Rosy Baker
183.Marco Antonio Rubio
184.Howard Eastman
185.Mel "Killer" Brown
186.Gomeo Brennan
187.Walter Cartier
188.Eugene "Cyclone" Hart
189.Wilford Scypion
190.Joe Carter
191.Nasim Max Cohen
192.Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
193.Atilio Sabatino
191.William "Caveman" Lee
192.Jackie Burke
193.Hacine Cherifi
194.Harry Balsamo
195.Jorge Castro
196.David Lemieux
197.Grzegorz Proksa
198.Johnny Rossi
199.Martin Murray
200.Kid Leonard

Stevie Collins pretty low considering two wins over Benn and Eubank each, with close losses to Reggie Johnson and Sumbu Kalambay.

[JAB5239]

Am I missing Ypung Corbett III on here? Outstanding middleweight with some excellent wins.

Billy Conn also with a very underrated middleweight resume.

[Biledriver]

I think the vast majority would agree Greb, Robinson, Monzon and Hagler are the Mount Rushmore of middleweight greats. Does Bernard Hopkins have a claim to being rated fifth? The IBRO has him 8th. Is there an argument he should be rated above Mickey Walker, Bob Fitzsimmons or Stanley Ketchel at Middleweight?

I’ll check my old list tomorrow (if I remember) when I’m on my desktop. I’m pretty sure I had Hopkins Top-10, but beyond that much I really don’t remember.

Biledriver

[JAB5239]

I’ll check my old list tomorrow (if I remember) when I’m on my desktop. I’m pretty sure I had Hopkins Top-10, but beyond that much I really don’t remember.

I'm really not trying to argue where he sould be as much as I am stimulate conversation. All time has always been subjective just like p4p. If you lean towards more modern fighters his 20 title defenses mean a lot. If you lean towards resume, not so much. I do believe Hopkins has a better resume than a few other ranked ahead of him. I also think his longevity counts......like it does for Wlad. It takes a lot to stay on top even in an era not considered strong. That doesn't mean I necessarily place him 5th, I'm just asking for opinions and reasons why other may have him higher or lower.

[Willow The Wisp]

Am I missing Ypung Corbett III on here? Outstanding middleweight with some excellent wins.

Billy Conn also with a very underrated middleweight resume.

Well, you must remember; It's a two-cent list.
Aren't they all?

[JAB5239]

Well, you must remember; It's a two-cent list.
Aren't they all?

Two cents my azz!! That's a million dollar list. A few missing names hardly devalued it. There aren't to many people who can name that many fighters and put them in a respectful enough order. Your lists ALWAYS impress, even when there may be a name or two missing. Much respect!

[Biledriver]

I'm really not trying to argue where he sould be as much as I am stimulate conversation. All time has always been subjective just like p4p. If you lean towards more modern fighters his 20 title defenses mean a lot. If you lean towards resume, not so much. I do believe Hopkins has a better resume than a few other ranked ahead of him. I also think his longevity counts......like it does for Wlad. It takes a lot to stay on top even in an era not considered strong. That doesn't mean I necessarily place him 5th, I'm just asking for opinions and reasons why other may have him higher or lower.

Ok, here's my old list (late 2000s), I'm Old-School 8 so this list is middleweights and junior-middleweights. If I was making the list today, I'd probably push Burley and Greb ahead of Ketchel and Hopkins, maybe Lamotta, Monson, and Zale too.

ATGs

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Marvin Hagler
05. Stanley Ketchel
06. Bernard Hopkins
07. Charley Burley
08. Harry Greb
09. Jake LaMotta
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Tony Zale
12. Panama Joe Gans
13. Marcel Cerdan
14. Les Darcy
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Holman Williams
17. Mickey Walker
18. James Toney
19. Mike McCallum
20. Tommy Burns
21. Freddie Steele
22. Non Periel Jack Dempsey
23. Nino Benvenuti


Some Near Greats (Alphabetical Order)

George Abrams
Freddie Apostoli
Joey Archer
Nigel Benn
George Benton
Bennie Brisco
Lou Brouillard
Hank Casey
Cyrille Delanoit
Vince Dundee
Tiger Flowers
Gene Fullmer
Joey Giambra
Joey Giardello
Bert Lytell
Gerald McClellan
Terry Norris
Mike O'Dowd
Ken Overlin
Billy Papke
Dave Sands
Harry Smith
Jeff Smith
Jermain Taylor
Randy Turpin
Rodrigo Valdez
Teddy Yarosz
Winky Wright

Biledriver

[JAB5239]

Ok, here's my old list (late 2000s), I'm Old-School 8 so this list is middleweights and junior-middleweights. If I was making the list today, I'd probably push Burley and Greb ahead of Ketchel and Hopkins, maybe Lamotta, Monson, and Zale too.

ATGs

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Marvin Hagler
05. Stanley Ketchel
06. Bernard Hopkins
07. Charley Burley
08. Harry Greb
09. Jake LaMotta
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Tony Zale
12. Panama Joe Gans
13. Marcel Cerdan
14. Les Darcy
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Holman Williams
17. Mickey Walker
18. James Toney
19. Mike McCallum
20. Tommy Burns
21. Freddie Steele
22. Non Periel Jack Dempsey
23. Nino Benvenuti


Some Near Greats (Alphabetical Order)

George Abrams
Freddie Apostoli
Joey Archer
Nigel Benn
George Benton
Bennie Brisco
Lou Brouillard
Hank Casey
Cyrille Delanoit
Vince Dundee
Tiger Flowers
Gene Fullmer
Joey Giambra
Joey Giardello
Bert Lytell
Gerald McClellan
Terry Norris
Mike O'Dowd
Ken Overlin
Billy Papke
Dave Sands
Harry Smith
Jeff Smith
Jermain Taylor
Randy Turpin
Rodrigo Valdez
Teddy Yarosz
Winky Wright

Very nice.......but WHY ARE Young Corbett III and Billy Conn getting no middleweight love? Wins over Walker, Conn, Lesnivich, Brouilard, Apostoli, Jackie Burke, Ceferino Garcia.......why isn't Corbett III getting any recognition?? I am genuinely curious about this. I don't have a ton of knowledge on the man, but his resume speaks for itself.

[IronDanHamza]

Very nice.......but WHY ARE Young Corbett III and Billy Conn getting no middleweight love? Wins over Walker, Conn, Lesnivich, Brouilard, Apostoli, Jackie Burke, Ceferino Garcia.......why isn't Corbett III getting any recognition?? I am genuinely curious about this. I don't have a ton of knowledge on the man, but his resume speaks for itself.

Can't understand a Middleweight list without Dick Tiger on it.