Top 5 Middleweights.....Hopkins?

[Willow The Wisp]

Very nice.......but WHY ARE Young Corbett III and Billy Conn getting no middleweight love? Wins over Walker, Conn, Lesnivich, Brouilard, Apostoli, Jackie Burke, Ceferino Garcia.......why isn't Corbett III getting any recognition?? I am genuinely curious about this. I don't have a ton of knowledge on the man, but his resume speaks for itself.

It gets a little dicey when classifying a fighter within a single weight class; when the fighters only won a world title in another class. This is especially true back when there were so many fewer titles to be had, and chasing multiple titles was so much more difficult. Raffaele Giordano (Young Corbett III), Billy Conn and Gene Tunney are examples of boxers who did HOF level work in a division other than the one they immortalized themselves as world champions in. Wrote or wrong, I'll always think of Corbett III as a great Welterweight, Conn as a great Light Heavyweight and Tunney as a great Heavyweight. But I'm just another schmo, posting my faves. It's just method.

[Willow The Wisp]

Ok, here's my old list (late 2000s), I'm Old-School 8 so this list is middleweights and junior-middleweights. If I was making the list today, I'd probably push Burley and Greb ahead of Ketchel and Hopkins, maybe Lamotta, Monson, and Zale too.

ATGs

01. Ray Robinson
02. Bob Fitzsimmons
03. Sam Langford
04. Marvin Hagler
05. Stanley Ketchel
06. Bernard Hopkins
07. Charley Burley
08. Harry Greb
09. Jake LaMotta
10. Carlos Monzon
11. Tony Zale
12. Panama Joe Gans
13. Marcel Cerdan
14. Les Darcy
15. Mike Gibbons
16. Holman Williams
17. Mickey Walker
18. James Toney
19. Mike McCallum
20. Tommy Burns
21. Freddie Steele
22. Non Periel Jack Dempsey
23. Nino Benvenuti


Some Near Greats (Alphabetical Order)

George Abrams
Freddie Apostoli
Joey Archer
Nigel Benn
George Benton
Bennie Brisco
Lou Brouillard
Hank Casey
Cyrille Delanoit
Vince Dundee
Tiger Flowers
Gene Fullmer
Joey Giambra
Joey Giardello
Bert Lytell
Gerald McClellan
Terry Norris
Mike O'Dowd
Ken Overlin
Billy Papke
Dave Sands
Harry Smith
Jeff Smith
Jermain Taylor
Randy Turpin
Rodrigo Valdez
Teddy Yarosz
Winky Wright

Les Darcy is a great pick.

[Biledriver]

Very nice.......but WHY ARE Young Corbett III and Billy Conn getting no middleweight love? Wins over Walker, Conn, Lesnivich, Brouilard, Apostoli, Jackie Burke, Ceferino Garcia.......why isn't Corbett III getting any recognition?? I am genuinely curious about this. I don't have a ton of knowledge on the man, but his resume speaks for itself.

I have Young Corbett III as a near-great on my welterweight list. I have Billy Conn rated #7 on my light-heavyweight list. Di ck Tiger I have as a near-great on the light-heavyweight list. With the sole exception of Ray Robinson (as the p4p GOAT he gets a special exemption) I don't rate fighters on more than one list, I rate them in the weight class I feel they were at their best.

Biledriver

[IronDanHamza]

I have Young Corbett III as a near-great on my welterweight list. I have Billy Conn rated #7 on my light-heavyweight list. **** Tiger I have as a near-great on the light-heavyweight list. With the sole exception of Ray Robinson (as the p4p GOAT he gets a special exemption) I don't rate fighters on more than one list, I rate them in the weight class I feel they were at their best.

Biledriver[/COLOR]

Surely Tiger belongs on a Middleweight list as opposed to a Light Heavyweight list?

[JAB5239]

Les Darcy is a great pick.

Was thinking the same thing. He's another fighter that gets little recognition. There use to be a poster on here with the user name McGoorty who would post some great information on Darcy. Ironically Les beat Eddie McGooty on a couple of occasions, McGoorty being another very good fighter.

[Willie Pep 229]

I think the vast majority would agree Greb, Robinson, Monzon and Hagler are the Mount Rushmore of middleweight greats. Does Bernard Hopkins have a claim to being rated fifth? The IBRO has him 8th. Is there an argument he should be rated above Mickey Walker, Bob Fitzsimmons or Stanley Ketchel at Middleweight?

I would put Nino Benvenuti over Hopkins. His two wins over Griffith, his 64 straight victorys at Jr. MW, his defenses against seven of the top ten Ring Ranked fighters during his MW rein, and his 12 hard rounds with Monzon showed me much more than Hopkins ever did.

[JAB5239]

I would put Nino Benvenuti over Hopkins. His two wins over Griffith, his 64 straight victorys at Jr. MW, his defenses against seven of the top ten Ring Ranked fighters during his MW rein, and his 12 hard rounds with Monzon showed me much more than Hopkins ever did.

If I counted correctly it appears Hopkins has 12 of his 20 succesful defenses against Ring rated top 10 fighters. I did include Jermain Taylor who he lost against. Mind you I'm not disagreeing with you, only playing devil's advocate.

[Biledriver]

Surely Tiger belongs on a Middleweight list as opposed to a Light Heavyweight list?

He held the light-heavy title longer. Three years as opposed to parts of two over two reigns.

Biledriver

[IronDanHamza]

He held the light-heavy title longer. Three years as opposed to parts of two over two reigns.

That's out of context semantics though, isn't it?

The vast majority of his career was at Middleweight, and obviously **** Tiger's Middleweight resume outweighs his Light Heavyweight resume.

[Biledriver]

That's out of context semantics though, isn't it?

The vast majority of his career was at Middleweight, and obviously **** Tiger's Middleweight resume outweighs his Light Heavyweight resume.

It's not obvious to me, especially since his middleweight resume is mostly no-names fighting in the minor leagues.

Biledriver