How do you view the matches between Langford and Wills?

[travestyny]

Yes Willis did duck Godfrey. Seveal times.



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I'd have to see more proof of that. Here he is claiming he can only get Wills $5000. I have a very hard time believing $75,000 for Godfrey vs. Wills, a match that the public likely wouldn't care about.

[Willie Pep 229]

Yes Willis did duck Godfrey. Seveal times.



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I find a 150K offer to Wills, for two Negros to fight in MSG a little difficult to believe.

In December 1920 the new sensation Jack Dempsey was paid 110K for fighting Bill Brennan at MSG. Tex Rickard claimed it was the only fight he ever lost money on.

The Garden's just not big enough (18K); that kind of payday necessitates a ball park fight.

Wills got 124K for fighting Firpo but that took place at Boyle's Thirty Acres.

Sounds to me, by the time 1943 rolled around things got a bit exaggerated.

[Ivich]

No you are incorrect. That's called barn storming that's what had to stop after 1922. You made my point and told me I'm wrong.

"So it was better for Wills to fight sparingly, only in big fights."
This is your statement,and its just plain wrong ,as I have proved by providing 3 fights Wills engaged in with low profile journeymen in1923.
Of his other fights at that time , leading up to his foul out to Sharkey when he getting his head handed to him,only
Weinert and Firpo were front rank opponents.

[Ivich]

I find a 150K offer to Wills, for two Negros to fight in MSG a little difficult to believe.

In December 1920 the new sensation Jack Dempsey was paid 110K for fighting Bill Brennan at MSG. Tex Rickard claimed it was the only fight he ever lost money on.

The Garden's just not big enough (18K); that kind of payday necessitates a ball park fight.

Wills got 124K for fighting Firpo but that took place at Boyle's Thirty Acres.

Sounds to me, by the time 1943 rolled around things got a bit exaggerated.

In which years of his career would Godfrey be of a sufficient stature to command a share of a $150,000 purse, particularly against another black fighter?
Godfrey turned pro in December 1919.
In 1920 he was ko'd by Battling Norfolk 5- 2-0
In 1921 he was ko'd by trial horse Jack Thompson17-16-6 and also by Langford
Going into 1923 Godfrey had no wins over significant opponents on his record.
That year he was ko'd by Jack Renault,lost by dsq to Battling Owens 2-7-0 and by dsq to Tom Cowler 56-34-2.
1924 Godfrey lost by dsq to Jack Townsend 2-4-0
and by decision to Jack Renault.

1925 Godfrey beat his first, what can be called ,"front rank opponent," when he decisioned Jack Renault in June of that year.
Godfrey then ko'd the no longer relevant Fred Fulton in December of that year.Fulton would have 2 more fights win neither, and retire.
1926 Godfrey lost by dsq to journeyman Chuck Wiggins,lost on points to Jack Sharkey,and beat up and coming Larry Gains.

1927 Godfrey beat fringe contenderJim Maloney 29-4-0 and prospect Monte Munn18-1-0
1928 Godfrey began the year with a win over Paulino Uzcudun,but then took steps backwards by losing to Johnny Risko, and Larry Gains .
When during this time was Godfrey ever a credible headliner for a$150,000 shared purse with Wills? I'm calling Bull **** on that claim!

Wills was the no contender in the first Ring rankings in1924 Godfrey was no8
1925 Wills no 1 Godfrey no6.
1926 Wills no1 Godfrey unranked
1927 Wills left the top ten rankings never to return,Godfrey was no 9

N.B. Sam Langford's biggest purse was £10,000 for his mixed race fight with Iron Hague in London.

Given the origin of this fanciful claim ,we know there will not be forthcoming primary sourced information to support it.
I invite anyone to provide irrefutable proof that two black fighters were ever offered a joint purse of $150,000 for a fight before the cut off point of 1930.
Jack Johnson estimated that his abortive title defence against Jeannette might have resulted in a gate of $100,000,his purse we know as to have been $30,000 and that was for a worlds heavyweight title defence between the champion and a leading contender.Yes I'm calling BS on this,and asking for proof to the contrary.

[Willie Pep 229]

"So it was better for Wills to fight sparingly, only in big fights."
This is your statement,and its just plain wrong ,as I have proved by providing 3 fights Wills engaged in with low profile journeymen in1923.
Of his other fights at that time , leading up to his foul out to Sharkey when he getting his head handed to him,only
Weinert and Firpo were front rank opponents.

Never mind.

[Ivich]

Never mind.

You can't take it can you fella.All of us are wrong from time to time, but you can't take it.Sad, but infinitely predictable.

[Willie Pep 229]

You can't take it can you fella.All of us are wrong from time to time, but you can't take it.Sad, but infinitely predictable.

You made my point stronger, he was criticized for taking weak fights.

That was my point. So I missed by a few months, you missed the bigger, more important point all together. I was offering an argument to why the Godfrey fight was difficult to make.

Damn, what is wrong with? Can't you offer anything without having to say someone is wrong?

You will actually interupt your own narative just to throw in an insult at the other person. Why!

You pointlessly point out typos, insult other posters. There is nothing in your behavior one can call a gentleman.

And just to hopefully make you go away. The reason I wouldn't cite my statement was because I was in a dispute with T, who had previously refused to cite an article for me.

You stuck you nose into our dispute and with your self righteous ass up on your shoulders, proceeded to call me names, like a ******** child, all without knowing the shot.

So according to you I am a coward, a fence sitter, a hand wringer, and I am nothing! Remember all that?

Do you and me a favor, stay away from me, you're not a gentleman I don't wish to abide your rudeness.

[Ivich]

You made my point stronger, he was criticized for taking weak fights.

That was my point. So I missed by a few months, you missed the bigger, more important point all together. I was offering an argument to why the Godfrey fight was difficult to make.

Damn, what is wrong with? Can't you offer anything without having to say someone is wrong?

You will actually interupt your own narative just to throw in an insult at the other person. Why!

You pointlessly point out typos, insult other posters. There is nothing in your behavior one can call a gentleman.

And just to hopefully make you go away. The reason I wouldn't cite my statement was because I was in a dispute with T, who had previously refused to cite an article for me.

You stuck you nose into our dispute and with your self righteous ass up on your shoulders, proceeded to call me names, like a ******** child, all without knowing the shot.

So according to you I am a coward, a fence sitter, a hand wringer, and I am nothing! Remember all that?

Do you and me a favor, stay away from me, you're not a gentleman I don't wish to abide your rudeness.

You continually make unfounded statements and when called to provide proof of them run away.
Your assertion that Wills only took major fights is totally untrue in fact he only engaged in2 such fights,during the time scale you yourself stipulated.I'm not concerned with who you are in dispute with,thats your problem not mine.

I reserve the right to challenge any assertion made by you or anyone else which I know to be incorrect,and I have absolutely no problem with anyone challenging anything I post.Just so long as they can supply proof I am wrong.

You are oversensitive and continually paint yourself in the role of victim ,if you can't take the rough and tumble of internet forums perhaps you should find an alternative pastime?
As for your opinion of me.I couldn't care less, go wring your hands.

[Willie Pep 229]

You continually make unfounded statements and when called to provide proof of them run away.
Your assertion that Wills only took major fights is totally untrue in fact he only engaged in2 such fights,during the time scale you yourself stipulated.I'm not concerned with who you are in dispute with,thats your problem not mine.

I reserve the right to challenge any assertion made by you or anyone else which I know to be incorrect,and I have absolutely no problem with anyone challenging anything I post.Just so long as they can supply proof I am wrong.

You are oversensitive and continually paint yourself in the role of victim ,if you can't take the rough and tumble of internet forums perhaps you should find an alternative pastime?
As for your opinion of me.I couldn't care less, go wring your hands.

Na you should stick your reserved rights right up . . .

RE Bold: I did it once and explained why. This is the type of BS you constantly sling.

"Oversensitive" is a BS word used by a bully to try an excuse away their boorish behavior.

You sir are not a gentleman; my susposed 'oversensitive' nature would be irrelevant if you could just learn to act as one. I.e. grow-up!

[Ivich]

Na you should stick your reserved rights right up . . .

RE Bold: I did it once and explained why. This is the type of BS you constantly sling.

"Oversensitive" is a BS word used by a bully to try an excuse away their boorish behavior.

You sir are not a gentleman; my susposed 'oversensitive' nature would be irrelevant if you could just learn to act as one. I.e. grow-up!

I never professed to be a gentleman,what I am however is a man prepared to back his opinions ,when they are challenged, with primary sourced evidence.A man who is not so prepared stands for nothing and hence imo is not a man as I understand the term.
Now we can play this back and forth BS with you playing the put upon victim his wounded heart displayed on his sleeve, bleeding all over the place, if you so wish,but I do assure you, my repertoire of adjectives is infinitely superior to yours.Also it in no way distresses me to be at odds with you whereas you appear to be on the verge of tears in your posts.

My advice to you is quit now,attack any of my posts you feel you have accuracy issues with and I will answer them as best I can,and without rancour,but do give up on this bleeding heart stance you have adopted, it is totally wasted, as phoney as a 2 dollar watch, and only demeans you.Make the right decision for your own sake.Stop embarrassing yourself.