Those two times George Godfrey was champion

[Marchegiano]

So firstly, obviously he's not a recognized champion so in either case it's to be taken as interesting not so much an argument for Godfrey to be recognized.

In about 1925 George Godfrey is pushing for a fight between himself and Jack Dempsey or Harry Wills. Both have squeezed him out.

Before I go on let me point out myself, George Godfrey was a part of the Jack Dempsey team. He was signed to Kearns, and Daugherty and was used in a few Dempsey camps to mixed results. It seems like they wanted him to seem unbeatable by any man not named Dempsey. So when either or both are doing press releases "pushing" for a Dempsey fight it's super respectful to Dempsey and more like George has earned the shot sort of stuff. There was an incident when they discharged Godfrey from camp for KO'ing Dempsey and ran a story that said it was Dempsey who had hurt Godfrey too much to cover Dempsey's image.

So in a very weird way it's not really a Dempsey fight per-se they want for George so much as a title fight, and, wanting someone they control already as the next champion.

Jimmy being an inside man does a series of press releases that basically say Jack Dempsey is retired and it's time to find a new champion.

Renault was another who had been pushing for a title fight and his block wasn't Wills but rather Godfrey. Beat Godfrey and we'll give you Jack kinda deal.

With Jack Dempsey not being sure he's coming back to boxing and Wills feeling no need to fight anyone but Jack Dempsey because he feels he has long proven he is the most legitimate contender, and Tunney looking to make his way to the title without fighting a black man there wasn't much room for a vacant fight between the top rated men of 1925.

What happens next is kind of dirty for all parties except the team behind Jack Dempsey.

They usurp Dempsey(C) by stating in the press their fighter has retired, then they rationalize away Tunney(2) and Wills(1) with the old they're being prima donas routine and set up Renault (3) with Godfrey (5) as a HW title fight.

No one cared, everyone saw Jack as the champion still and after a few short months the team had given up on Godfrey as champion because Jack had voiced interest in returning next year.



The next case is way shorter to explain:

in 1935, a clean decade later, Godfrey would beat Pierre Charles for the IBU version of the World title. He'd be stripped almost immediately for refusing to pay sanctioning fees and it wouldn't be long after that he'd retire.

[GhostofDempsey]

He had a reputation for being a dirty fighter and was DQ'd quite often. Nothing on his resume suggests he was going to be a credible threat to Dempsey, who he served as a sparring partner. He lost a UD to Sharkey, and there isn't much to his record to indicate he was a big attraction/money fighter. He did defeat Uzcudun, who had KO'd Wills the year prior.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Really stretching a broken rubberband looking for any coherency of GG.

Maybe he threw those 5 KO losses in his first three years of boxing, but on limited video of him, he's a bit like Wills in that he looks very poor. Surely his record supports he must've had something going at one point, perhaps too late in the game...

[GhostofDempsey]

There's a lot of debate it seem as to whether Godfrey was dirty or cuffed.

For example, it's speculated he fought in cuffs against Sharkey to ensure he'd get to fight an eliminator. I can't remember the fella who'd be the elim opponent, but, it's in sundowners so if you're interested I could find that story but it's a bit beside the point.

To say he was either definitively is to take a bigger leap than any current academic without any more evidence.

I can't see the motivation by an entire sport to DQ him undeservedly. The eliminator you're referencing was a later title match between Sharkey and Schmeling in 1930. I believe Wills turned down a $150K offer to fight Godfrey while he was still pursuing a Dempsey fight.

[GhostofDempsey]

I mean, if you're interested I'll make another Godfrey thread for that and share what I know on the case-by-case basis but I'm telling you now a lot of the time historians who paint Godfrey like he's an unfortunate reception of mistreatment put that blame on the Dempsey connection.

No man, it was a no name ****er I promise that. It wasn't an elim that actually happened the the first name was Bob. I can't get at my book ATM but I'll give you more info.

I'm not about to be the guy who says this dude was fixed or dirty, but, I will share with you what I know from the dudes who do....well kinda, they be ******* about it and say **** like "It seems most likely" to cover their asses, no one makes it definitely....and, to be honest, I don't think I've read a very critical review so I don't really have any condemning reports, but, I'd bet contemporary reports do. Them anon papers and **** probably best place to look for a critical review of Godfrey.


Bury ain't wrong with that rubberband line. It's hard even if I wanted to pick a side to get any ****ing coherence.

I figured you were aiming at a Dempsey connection, why else would you start this thread but to find another way to bash him? Same as your duck poll thread? He was a Dempsey sparring partner. Pretty sure Dempsey paid for his funeral and attended it as well.

Truth is, Godfrey was limited. He lost to very marginal and ordinary opponents. Knocked out six times. He was a slow, plodding fighter, watch the Carnera fight.

[Willie Pep 229]

I can't see the motivation by an entire sport to DQ him undeservedly. The eliminator you're referencing was a later title match between Sharkey and Schmeling in 1930. I believe Wills turned down a $150K offer to fight Godfrey while he was still pursuing a Dempsey fight.

Hard to believe Wills would walk away from 150K in hope's of fighting Dempsey. - He would have made less ( guarantee) if he had fought Dempsey.

Tunney I believe was guaranteed only 130K in '26 for Dempsey but gained more % wise because Dempsey packed Sesquicentennial Stadium to the rafters.

Maybe it's true worst decisions have been made before and since.

[GhostofDempsey]

Hard to believe Wills would walk away from 150K in hope's of fighting Dempsey. - He would have made less ( guarantee) if he had fought Dempsey.

Tunney I believe was guaranteed only 130K in '26 for Dempsey but gained more % wise because Dempsey packed Sesquicentennial Stadium to the rafters.

Maybe it's true worst decisions have been made before and since.

Wills did turn down $250K to fight Tunney, a 1943 interview with Godfrey alleges Rickard made the $150K offer to Wills for a fight at Madison Square Garden. Godfrey's manager, Doughrety claims Wills turned down a $75K offer from a promoter in Philadelphia. Knowing the nature of hyperbole back then, it's difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. All speculative.

[GhostofDempsey]

It's like I told you before, it isn't my fault everyone in the period blames Dempsey for their own lack of success. It just happens to be the period in history I'm casually researching in my free time.

There is no way to blame me for the Dempsey connection catching the blame for Godfrey's career.

There is no way to blame me for Norfolk trying to get a Dempsey fight and coming up short.

There is no way to blame me for Greb wanting to fight Jack and never doing it.

There is no way to blame me for Wills pressuring for a title shot.

Even when I read about Gahee, there was a Jack ducked me story. After he meets Jack he reascends his challenge but there's still a Jack ducked me story and I am not why there's a Jack ducked me story.

There's always a Jack Dempsey ducked me story.




As far as my pond, if your **** ass provided some examples for others than Jack wouldn't stand out so much, dumbass.

Dempsey didn’t owe Greb a title shot, since when does a HW champ need to entertain a challenge from a MW champ? In what other era does that fly?

Anyone can accuse Dempsey of ducking if they didn’t get the fight they wanted. Wills was offered a shot and his side came up short. He got beat down by Sharkey and KO’d by Uzcudun. Wills was accused of ducking George. Johnson was accused of ducking Langford, McVey and Jeannette while champion.

Jack Blackburn claims to have gotten the better of Johnson in sparring, busted his nose and made him quit. Maybe it’s true and maybe it isn’t.

This is another transparent and petty attempt on your part to start another Dempsey bash thread. Not clever at all. But, you’re a guy who goes around threatening to beat up and assault female nurses, so I’m not surprised you behave this way. Punk.

[Marchegiano]

Dempsey didn’t owe Greb a title shot, since when does a HW champ need to entertain a challenge from a MW champ? In what other era does that fly?

Anyone can accuse Dempsey of ducking if they didn’t get the fight they wanted. Wills was offered a shot and his side came up short. He got beat down by Sharkey and KO’d by Uzcudun. Wills was accused of ducking George. Johnson was accused of ducking Langford, McVey and Jeannette while champion.

Jack Blackburn claims to have gotten the better of Johnson in sparring, busted his nose and made him quit. Maybe it’s true and maybe it isn’t.

This is another transparent and petty attempt on your part to start another Dempsey bash thread. Not clever at all. But, you’re a guy who goes around threatening to beat up and assault female nurses, so I’m not surprised you behave this way. Punk.

Bud, let me say this as bluntly as possible. You are a cry baby. You literally cry in every section I see you in. Going to go to lounge to do some ****ing crying after this there too. See you in NSB it'll be for you to do some crying at some other folks there too. All you do is cry and take offense.

I didn't even write this to disparage Jack. If I had, I'd've just blamed Jack you dumb ass **** not Kearns and Daugherty, duh. If you want me to go through and replace Kearns with Dempsey that's fine. I can even postulate Kearns did it because Dempsey told them too rather than saying Kearns did **** on his own because he wasn't sure if Dempsey was coming back to boxing.

You're ****ing soft man. I'm sorry I make you cry, on accident, all the ****ing time.






I'm adding the Johnson story to my duck pond, thanks for that.

[Willie Pep 229]

Wills did turn down $250K to fight Tunney, a 1943 interview with Godfrey alleges Rickard made the $150K offer to Wills for a fight at Madison Square Garden. Godfrey's manager, Doughrety claims Wills turned down a $75K offer from a promoter in Philadelphia. Knowing the nature of hyperbole back then, it's difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt. All speculative.

The 75k sound more believable - they say the only fight Rickard ever lost money on was the Dempsry - Brennan fight at MSG. Assuming Dempsey packed the Garden he was only paid just over a 100K and Rickard lost money. It's hard to see how he could have offered Wills 150k for a non stadium fight.

Wills made 124k for the Firpo fight at Boyle's Thirty Acres with a crowd of 60k. I don't know what the Garden could hold at that time but is hard to see it being more than 20k.

With two black fighters it's hard to see high ticket prices although Wills was very popular in New York.