Giant Heavyweights Always Could Have Ruled?

[Marchegiano]

I agree with most of your premise, but I think you miss the mark somewhat with the noted part. Nobody is arguing any sort of evolution that leads to naturally better muscles; but there are a couple of factors at play that do point to modern athletes being better athletes than those of over a century ago.

One is better living conditions in general. A population with better diets and health care will on average produce bigger, stronger, and more athletic people (speaking in the macro sense of the term, certainly there will be those that fall outside the norm in all instances). Ergo, a healthier populous in general will produce better athletes. And while the rise of junk/fast food has taken a toll on most western nations; people in general are a lot healthier now than they were during the 2nd Industrial Revolution (roughly the era when fighters who fought 45 round fights were born).

Additionally, modern athletic training HAS improved modern athletes this isn't evolution, this is just building upon the great minds who came before. Now I am not just writing weight training (though smart strength training does play a role in it), and I am not implying steroids (though modern legal medicine and diets are part of it). The fact is strong athletes today are stronger, endurance athletes today have better stamina, and sprint athletes today are faster, relative to where they were over a century ago.

And while you are correct that changes in equipment have benefitted modern athletes (and I am waiting for the obligatory Jim Thorpe ran in mismatched shoes ergo he must've been faster comment) it isn't to the extent that makes them superior to modern athletes. David Epstein's Ted Talk from a few years back did a good job addressing this, where they accounted for the amount of force absorbed by the old gravel tracks, and then utilized that information (along with stride length and frequency) to compare Jesse Owens world record time with that of Usain Bolt's in a recent Olympics. And while Owens time moves up from not in the final group, to second overall, when accounting for equipment, it was still second. In essence, modern training DOES make athletes better than they once were, just not to the extent it may appear when not isolating the variables of equipment.

All of this is equally true for smaller men. At 45 rounds you're asking for something significantly more than PEDs to get a man there.

I'll word it like this, how many PEDs do you think you need to feed a rabbit to make it run cross country? How superior a treadmill do you need to make a rabbit a cross country runner? At what point do you accept a rabbit simply lacks the biology to become a cross country runner?


Some of what I say short version, it might interest you to know equipment, rules, etc. works in two directions. It is unlikely anyone will break the javelin record, for example, because we use different javelins that don't fly so far. So, sometimes one should expect records to break due to a rule change and sometimes one shouldn't. Not really anything for my overall point but since you spoke to equipment I figured you'd find it interesting.

[shawnkemp804]

Wilder is big, but he actually weighs less than Usyk. Should size be defined by height or weight - or both?

Lol you do realize Usyk is a 199 or so pound guy who puts weight on to fight at heavyweight right ? You do realize Wilder has always been over 200 pounds as a pro? Wilder is heavier than Usyk.

[shawnkemp804]

I think this is a big part of it.

Also, the elephant in the room is PEDs.

Guys who were 250lbs weren't going to be able to fight hard for 12 rounds in the past. Now they can.

Also, they can achieve greater speed & quickness while maintaining that size now.

We see the same thing in the NFL, NBA, MLB, etc. . .

It aint no new thang.

If I gave George Foreman what these guys were on, he'd be 260 of solid muscle and wouldn't have gassed out against Ali in the Jungle.

Lol you do realize Joshua is on the juice and has no stamina right? You do realize Wladimir Klitschko was on the juice and he gassed out.

Being on the juice doesn't increase your stamina. When Foreman came out of retirement he weighed between 250 and 260 for most of his bouts and he didn't use PED's and he didn't gas out. Foreman gassed out 1 time in his prime and that was against Ali who constantly held down on his neck and got away with it.

[shawnkemp804]

It is funny how casuals act like being 6'5 plus makes you a giant heavyweight. IT is also funny how they act like 6'5 plus heavyweights didn't exist until recently when in reality 6'6 250 pound heavyweights existed since the early 1900's and tons of 6'5 plus boxers started being pro since the 1970's. The main difference was they were in shape and nobody acted like they were giants. Also the same people who think 6'5 heavyweights are a new thing are the same guys who think Tyson Fury is 6'9

[kara]

Lol you do realize Usyk is a 199 or so pound guy who puts weight on to fight at heavyweight right ? You do realize Wilder has always been over 200 pounds as a pro? Wilder is heavier than Usyk.

Usyk fought at heavyweight as an amateur. He was in the Olympics at 200. You think he walks around at 200 and fights at 200? He has to cut down to 200. I saw Usyk in person, he's a big dude, thick.

[Slugfester]

Lol you do realize Joshua is on the juice and has no stamina right? You do realize Wladimir Klitschko was on the juice and he gassed out.

Being on the juice doesn't increase your stamina. When Foreman came out of retirement he weighed between 250 and 260 for most of his bouts and he didn't use PED's and he didn't gas out. Foreman gassed out 1 time in his prime and that was against Ali who constantly held down on his neck and got away with it.

I would say George gassed out against Young too.

[Slugfester]

It is funny how casuals act like being 6'5 plus makes you a giant heavyweight. IT is also funny how they act like 6'5 plus heavyweights didn't exist until recently when in reality 6'6 250 pound heavyweights existed since the early 1900's and tons of 6'5 plus boxers started being pro since the 1970's. The main difference was they were in shape and nobody acted like they were giants. Also the same people who think 6'5 heavyweights are a new thing are the same guys who think Tyson Fury is 6'9

No one is saying giant heavyweights never existed. Everyone can see they never dominated before in the sport's history though. Some, myself among them, are highly su****ious that today's giants get a little boost of stamina from a bottle or a needle, so they don't gas out lije yesteryear's giant have the reputation for.

If Tyson Fury is not 6'9", then how tall is he? I know height often gets inflated. What's your number, kid? 6'6" is my cutoff for a giant. What's yours?

[QueensburyRules]

If Tyson Fury is not 6'9", then how tall is he? I know height often gets inflated. What's your number, kid? 6'6" is my cutoff for a giant. What's yours?

- - He cutoff is juice.

Juice, here, there, and everywhere he be...

[The D3vil]

Lol you do realize Joshua is on the juice and has no stamina right? You do realize Wladimir Klitschko was on the juice and he gassed out.

Being on the juice doesn't increase your stamina. When Foreman came out of retirement he weighed between 250 and 260 for most of his bouts and he didn't use PED's and he didn't gas out. Foreman gassed out 1 time in his prime and that was against Ali who constantly held down on his neck and got away with it.

Dude, that's nonsense. If being on the juice didn't help your stamina, you wouldn't have whole fields of the Tour De France having to be suspended for doping.

Endurance athletes all over the world use PEDs

We don't know how bad Joshua's stamina would be without the juice or Klit.

It's a helper, not a magic elixir

[Willie Pep 229]

Dude, that's nonsense. If being on the juice didn't help your stamina, you wouldn't have whole fields of the Tour De France having to be suspended for doping.

Endurance athletes all over the world use PEDs

We don't know how bad Joshua's stamina would be without the juice or Klit.

It's a helper, not a magic elixir

I agreed with everything you said until the last line.

That damn stuff made a mere HOF player better than Babe Ruth. Bonds gained way too much, way too late, for that stuff not to have some ******** magic to it.