best left hook in history?

[billeau2]

Interesting stuff as always from you. I'm a lot better at studying grappling techniques when watching MMA fights. At least in terms of going as in depth as you do. Didn't Jones usually throw left hooks a lot more often than jabs to set up his right hands? I seem to remember Jones not being much of a jabber.

He did... Jones would feint and leap, or quickly move in with a hook. Mexican fighters often use the hook as a lead as well, but different logic. For Jones, he was so fast that he could get in there and drive the person back, especially given his power. For Mexican fighters who employ that style, it is a matter of going around what is in front of you (the person's guard).

[billeau2]

Really? Seems unimaginative.

The Boilermaker - now there's a nickname you can write home about.. I wonder what the hell it meant circa 1905. Doesn't mean s-hit to me today.

Can we call Mayweather Jr. 'Peter Pan'? - he tended to fly about the ring so.

P.S. If it turns out Jeffries made boilers for a living, please don't tell me.

It the boilermaker was a popular drink. You take a shot glass of whiskey and drop it in a beer.

How about The original Dempsey, not the famous heavyweight, guy had a series of names among them: "the chicken", "the game ****", "the nonpareil."

[billeau2]

I disagree with the bolded statement. Mayweather caught Hatton with a big one. Your opponent throws a right hand, you can either pull, or pivot to avoid the right hand while throwing the lead hook. This is referred to as a check hook. TBH, Ive been around for a long time, but have only started hearing that term used in the US in the past decade or so. I've heard some refer to it as a "Russian" check hook, and a "Cuban" check hook.

"In boxing, a check hook is employed to prevent aggressive boxers from lunging in. There are two parts to the check hook. The first part consists of a regular hook. The second, trickier part involves the footwork. As the opponent lunges in, the boxer should throw the hook and pivot on his lead foot and swing his back foot 180 degrees around. "









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apologies, I was not clear. I was trying to say that even when someone pivots while throwing a hook, it need not be a check hook. In other words, someone can offensively pivot in a direction while throwing a hook as Cooney did with his. A check hook depends on the action of pivoting, it is far as I can tell employed exclusively as a type of counter. Mayweather's check hook was a classic example of the technique... he started more, or less, in front of Hatton and after delivering the shot was to the side of Hatton (dyslexia, cannot say which side lol).

[Willie Pep 229]

It the boilermaker was a popular drink. You take a shot glass of whiskey and drop it in a beer.

How about The original Dempsey, not the famous heavyweight, guy had a series of names among them: "the chicken", "the game ****", "the nonpareil."

The Nonpareil is wonderful so very 19th century - you think the drink is that old?

[billeau2]

Interesting stuff as always from you. I'm a lot better at studying grappling techniques when watching MMA fights. At least in terms of going as in depth as you do. Didn't Jones usually throw left hooks a lot more often than jabs to set up his right hands? I seem to remember Jones not being much of a jabber.

BTW It is a lot more difficult to look at what is happening with grappling because it is more subtle. How does one tell where one shifts his weight, while watching two people grapple? And how can one spot a particular grip used while transitioning from one position to another?

Sports grappling is always a matter of getting position and then applying technique... the exact opposite of combat theory in Ju Jitsu, where you use Atemi waza or Koshi waza to unbalance an opponent. Atemi Waza translates as a hit to a vital area, in reality it can be little more than slapping the living bejesus out of someone to set them up for a choke, arm break, or even a restraint. Koshi is a little more subtle, it literally means "breaking the hip" but means so figuratively, as in breaking the balance of the person. So, you may use your weight to push a person back over your hip, as you unbalance them, you complete a hip throw.

[Flickergrab98]

Yea see. . . . it sounds rugged . . . Say Captain Hook and I see a slightly effeminate pirate, e.g. Dustin Hoffman; Cyril Ritchard. Can't get past the Peter Pan image.

If The boilermaker doesn't get you there how about Mysterious Billy Smith.

Come on you did say 'best ever' - maybe we need to start a thread and get a consensus.

P.S. What the hell is a 'British Sherman Firefly?

It’s just a really good play on words and it tells you something important about the fighter. Imagine you’re scheduled to fight somebody and you’re told his nickname is Captain Hook. You’ll then know, “I better keep an eye out for this guys hooks then.”

[Cypocryphy]

Yea see. . . . it sounds rugged . . . Say Captain Hook and I see a slightly effeminate pirate, e.g. Dustin Hoffman; Cyril Ritchard. Can't get past the Peter Pan image.

If The boilermaker doesn't get you there how about Mysterious Billy Smith.

Come on you did say 'best ever' - maybe we need to start a thread and get a consensus.

P.S. What the hell is a 'British Sherman Firefly?

Hahah Well, I think "Iron" Mike Tyson was pretty good. Or "The Greatest." "The Executioner." And, of course, "Hands of Stone." I can see Captain Hook sounds lame, but the more I associate it with RJJ, the more I think of it as "throwing hooks" rather than Peter Pan.

Mysterious Billy Smith? I don't know. If I were a pro boxer, I'd like the nickname, "The Sandman." Something that translates into boxing. "Mysterious" doesn't sound threatening at all, IMO.

A British Sherman Firefly? It's a tank, from WW2. It's actually an American tank that the British bought and modified, putting a 16 pounder on it so that it can bust through some of the German tanks. Most of the German tanks had too much armor to penetrate, especially with the regular American tanks. So they modified the "Sherman" and called it a "Firefly." A Sherman Firefly that was able to destroy a fair amount of German tanks was nicknamed "The Boilermaker." Probably because it had a bunch of welded on accessories.

[Anthony342]

Really? Seems unimaginative.

The Boilermaker - now there's a nickname you can write home about.. I wonder what the hell it meant circa 1905. Doesn't mean s-hit to me today.

Can we call Mayweather Jr. 'Peter Pan'? - he tended to fly about the ring so.

P.S. If it turns out Jeffries made boilers for a living, please don't tell me.

Yeah, plus he was and is pretty immature.

[Anthony342]

Yes. Jones Jr's nick name was "Captain Hook."

Thanks man. Hey kickass avatar. Where did you find it?

[Anthony342]

BTW It is a lot more difficult to look at what is happening with grappling because it is more subtle. How does one tell where one shifts his weight, while watching two people grapple? And how can one spot a particular grip used while transitioning from one position to another?

Sports grappling is always a matter of getting position and then applying technique... the exact opposite of combat theory in Ju Jitsu, where you use Atemi waza or Koshi waza to unbalance an opponent. Atemi Waza translates as a hit to a vital area, in reality it can be little more than slapping the living bejesus out of someone to set them up for a choke, arm break, or even a restraint. Koshi is a little more subtle, it literally means "breaking the hip" but means so figuratively, as in breaking the balance of the person. So, you may use your weight to push a person back over your hip, as you unbalance them, you complete a hip throw.

Not for me. I just watch and go "Okay he just passed the guard" or "now he's in full guard", "he's moved to half guard", which some wrestlers prefer to be in and then I kind of notice when a fighter has his opponent set up for a submission to get it hooked in. I guess I just don't get as technical as you do lol. I like finding out about new holds too, like an Ezekiel Choke, which one fighter has a record of winning the most MMA fights with or a Peruvian Necktie, which looks tough to escape, since so few fighters use it and it can be quickly applied.

But the very small subtle things you mention I just think I don't know how he sees that. I usually just look more for if one fighter has the other hurt or is establishing dominance, who has momentum, stuff like that. That's why I like learning this type of stuff here in the history section. It probably comes from me being on the autism spectrum and too much information coming at me at once causing what's known as "sensory overload."