Which boxer has the best power mechanics?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Kinematic chains, I was pretty clear. Kinematic chains are what you watch for power. Look them up, then look at Rocky, and look at everyone else you mentioned. Yes, Marciano, and it's not even close.


If one asked "Who is most similar to bare knuckle era techniques" would you bring up Lomachenko? Nope, that's dumb as **** isn't it.

If you were clever you'd realize they are the same. bare knuckle era techs center around power and kinematic chaining, plus line of sight and other things, but most kinematic chains.

Finally, your opinion is one of the lowest. I really don't care. You're one of these guys who doesn't know how to elevate or diminish without comparing to who you say is great. You're limited in philosophy.

Next you'll be on here trying to justify your love of Midget ****, and why it's the best thing.

Don't get me wrong, everyone has the right to his own opinion. But not his own facts.

Going off tangent about bare knuckle Boxing and kinematic chains doesn't make your position any less wrong. If you had a real argument you wouldn't need to go off subject.

The evidence speaks for itself: Marciano needed countless rounds to breakdown men like Charles, Walcott, LaStarza, ****ell, and Moore. Most the guys he fought were on their way out.

Compare what you're seeing there against Dempsey's destruction of Willard.

I'msure you'll respond with some weird tangent. But the truth is there's plenty of evidence onthe subject, and it's stacked against you and your perverse obsession w/ Marciano.

[Marchegiano]

Next you'll be on here trying to justify your love of Midget ****, and why it's the best thing.

Don't get me wrong, everyone has the right to his own opinion. But not his own facts.

Going off tangent about bare knuckle Boxing and kinematic chains doesn't make your position any less wrong. If you had a real argument you wouldn't need to go off subject.

The evidence speaks for itself: Marciano needed countless rounds to breakdown men like Charles, Walcott, LaStarza, ****ell, and Moore. Most the guys he fought were on their way out.

Compare what you're seeing there against Dempsey's destruction of Willard.

I'msure you'll respond with some weird tangent. But the truth is there's plenty of evidence onthe subject, and it's stacked against you and your perverse obsession w/ Marciano.

925ft-lbs measured by the US Army says you are dumb as ****.

[Rusty Tromboni]

925ft-lbs measured by the US Army says you are dumb as ****.

Dude, even Miss Cleo can predict you.

Getting back on topic. Can you show me ANYTHING Marciano did that matches:

Dempsey's one punch KO of Sharkey?
Dempsey's combination that dropped Tunney?

This is just one guy who is the same size.

No weird ass tangents. Just footage. That's all I am asking for.

[Marchegiano]

Dude, even Miss Cleo can predict you.

Getting back on topic. Can you show me ANYTHING Marciano did that matches:

Dempsey's one punch KO of Sharkey?
Dempsey's combination that dropped Tunney?

This is just one guy who is the same size.

No weird ass tangents. Just footage. That's all I am asking for.

You're too ****** to follow. I gave you very direct responses, it's not my fault you're an idiot. Re-read it until you get it or **** off.

[The Old LefHook]

Rocky beat his opponents' arms blue.

[billeau2]

Next you'll be on here trying to justify your love of Midget ****, and why it's the best thing.

Don't get me wrong, everyone has the right to his own opinion. But not his own facts.

Going off tangent about bare knuckle Boxing and kinematic chains doesn't make your position any less wrong. If you had a real argument you wouldn't need to go off subject.

The evidence speaks for itself: Marciano needed countless rounds to breakdown men like Charles, Walcott, LaStarza, ****ell, and Moore. Most the guys he fought were on their way out.

Compare what you're seeing there against Dempsey's destruction of Willard.

I'msure you'll respond with some weird tangent. But the truth is there's plenty of evidence onthe subject, and it's stacked against you and your perverse obsession w/ Marciano.

Can I interject here? I think highly of you and Marcheniagro, even if my dyslexia makes it particularly hard to spell his posting name.

First off The Kinematic chain is a variation of something that is found in virtually all combat endevours. I always back M up when he mentions it because we have the same basic thing, called communitive locking in the grappling arts. Is it important?

Not unless you really want to understand how people fought when boxing was a martial art and how boxing changed so much so quickly; And why some guys developed really strong punching. The proof of this concept is the following: Try this and you will understand why it is integral and what it is March is talking about. Take a pair of leather gloves, and find a pair of boxing gloves. Now hold look at a picture of someone like Jack Johnson and hold your hands in that position. In other words, palms up fist clenched but not crazy tight...Now get a partner, put on leather gloves, not boxing gloves, and have him stand in front of you. Take the front hand and simply rock the weight forward and lightly tap partner on the chin. Your arms should hardly, IF, move at all.

If done correct you will notice that your force transfers through. That tap is felt and it feels like a cement block. IN OTHER WORDS, the force generated from rocking and having the arms semi locked allows the point of impact to transfer the force, rather easily...to your target. Boxing before the new age was based almost exclusively on this concept of force... Fighters developed footwork to move the back leg sparingly, and just enough to be in position to unleash the lead as a counter. An efficient fighter hardly had to move at all and punches when thrown would hardly be seen.

Trainers wanted to make a buck and teach boxing to "swell fellas" so "mufflers" were developed. Those boxing gloves you are about to put on, are what was called mufflers, because, they Muffled the force by breaking the connection. You will do the same exact drill with these gloves and notice almost immediately that the force does not make it...

With bigger gloves, the application of boxing changed. There was a need to generate more speed, more mass. It was no longer enough to have the body properly aligned when hitting the point of the chin accurately. During these times there was no head twisting hooks to side of the head either, took too much effort, when one could simply hit to the body with the hook, or catch the point of the chin on an angle. We had fighters like Kid Mccoy who twisted the hand on impact to dislocate the jaw shelf...and the kid might have tole us "Why hit from a great distance, loop when I can hit to the mandible hinge twist hard and get a cleaner effect with less telegraph and less effort?

So naturally fighters went farther down M's "Kinematic" chain. Fighters were being taught to get strong legs, to dig in and twist the hips and spine, and follow through to hit harder, and in so doing, trying to exploit the alignment of the body to sustain and generate that force. When we see great fighters from the old days who were known as hitters, we did not necessarily see tree trunk legs...Fitzimmons, who had a hammer, had pencil legs and giant shoulders. By the time we get to Dempsey we see movement and force emphasized from the ground up.

It could be said that Dempsey extended the chain of alignment in the body, from the hands, to the shoulders to the waist initially, to the legs. Dempsey taught that we needed to put our weight forwards and commit to the punch. To do this our alignment had to be in check. Dempsey's ingenious solution to this problem was to use a movement we were already familiar with: walking. In his book he teaches us to practice as though we are walking and as we go forward to put the foot forward just as we would slip to the ground... at the very last minute.

Once we associate this with punching our weight goes forward unrestrained and our alignment, the kinematic chain? is in check because we tend to walk in a natural alignment. We are learning to use our weight and the tendency of the body to transfer energy efficiently...I mean we do not see people walking off kilter!

So what does this have to do with Marciano? Greatness is measured in many ways. Frank Sinatra and Steve Wonder, two great singers. Those who worked with Sinatra said that his pacing, his sense of pitch, tone, spacing of the words, made him a technical marvel. Steve Wonder changed pitch frequently, had his own sense of tone, pace etc...total opposite of Sinatra, but also a marvel.

When we talk of great fighters, one reason I don't like the concept of the "best" is because fighters often have gifts that are unique. Liston was an incredible finisher. Tyson, for all his mistakes, etc could be competative at his best with any other heavy weight in history on a good day. Larry Holmes...the most incredible lateral movement... And on it goes.

Marciano was a puzzle in certain ways. On the surface he was pretty cut and dry. I mean he was tough, one of the best swarmers, ever to be a champ. Nothing too complex really... Except if you look below the surface things are different under the hood here. M is correct that Marciano found a way to utilize efficiency of movement through the Kinematic chain. Fighters say that when he hit it felt powerful in a way unlike other fighters hit, and many feel after watching some of the greatest, that Marciano had such a will, sense of purpose, that he was in some ways a supreme fighter.

My views for what they are worth...Marciano was not in our system and understanding of boxing, anything more than an ATG. But I do feel that when we look at some of what M researches about champs throughout the ages, Marciano did have a special something that makes him stand out. he was a lot better technically than people credit him for being, Goldman taught him many things that induced his biomechanical efficiency, including to throw punches like he threw a baseball, and the man had a will and activity level that made him impossible to overcome at times.

[them_apples]

925ft-lbs measured by the US Army says you are dumb as ****.

Rocky had deceptively fast shots as well because his arms were so short, with a 67 reach he extends his arm fully in half the time that someone with a longer reach does. You put 925 lbs of force on someones jaw when they aren't expecting it thats brain damage right there.

The longer taller guy might hit harder, but the window in which he lands on the end of that shot is much more limited.

They measure guys in psi nowa days, and I don't believe half of it either. I don't even hold the 925 lbs with much credibility, I just know rocky hit hard because of the way he put guys down.

[a.rihn]

I just want to interject and highlight Dempsey's own strained attempt to explain what he called his own "explosive" power:

What would happen if a year-old baby fell from a fourth-floor window onto the head of a burly truck driver, standing on the sidewalk?

It's practically certain that the truckman would be knocked unconscious. He might die of brain concussion or a broken neck.

Even an innocent little baby can become a dangerous missile WHEN ITS BODY-WEIGHT IS SET INTO FAST MOTION.

View the entire book .

[AlexKid]

I just want to interject and highlight Dempsey's own strained attempt to explain what he called his own "explosive" power:



View the entire book .

xD Strained attempt lmfao!



Jack Dempsey could launch a full grown man

[AlexKid]

I dont think he could reach terminal velocity though , so it was a strained attempt lmao