PS3 for $599??

[LostGuy]

Maybe 20 years ago I would have taken the Sony, but I will take a Samsung product over a Sony product any day of the week. Sony charges a premium for their products because they had the superior products in the 80s when Samsung and the other Jap companies puked bigtime. These days a Samsung is always a better buy when taking quality and price into consideration.

And that has nothing to do with games, just how I fell about Sony these days. I still have a 27" Wega and some other Sony products, but in general I am taking Samsung over Sony.

then your a damn fool if you take samsung over sony at the same price and definitely in the minority on that one
edit: not a damn fool as i originally put
i was thinking samsung was generic brand so my bad
samsung is decent although still not as good as sony
syvania or some **** like that is what i was thinking
its garbage
cyberhome dvd player is damn good though but get a universal remote cause its remote is a damn grid and sucks in the dark


online gaming
jury is still out
i really could care less about online gaming cause i dont like playing multiplayer games that much anyhow

but looks like sony still wont be making people pay with the basic service just the more premium services unlike xbox so if thats true i think theyll take over a major portion of the online console gamers from xbox especially when those people get tired of paying a monthly subscription fee

thats the big reason i never cared about online gaming
im not paying to play against a bunch of suckas i dont know and dont care to know

[Jarlaxle]

third party support will come when the companies have a sense that they can make a profit off of it. i'm not sure of what reasons the major Japanese companies haven't really gotten behind the 360, but i really haven't seen many games for it done by Japanese companies. on a couple of sites that sell japanese software (, , ) there isn't much selection. it's weird to think that since the 360 has come out, there isn't much 3rd party support from the video game capital of the world. development kits have been out for awhile, so there's no reason that there shouldn't be more games for the 360 coming from Japan. i'm not saying that Japan is the end all in terms of video games, but it is a very lucrative market that MS needs to crack if it wants to continue to be a competitor.

Japan is not the video game capital of the world. Its a distant 2nd to the US and barley ahead of Europe when it comes to game sells. I dont even know if its still ahead of Europe anymore. Also the 360 has plenty Japanese support its just that many of the games are Japan first or Japan only, like Wrestle Kingdom, Enchanted Arm, Every Party, Rumble Roses, and the next WE game should be out in a few months or less. There are already a couple Sega titles Ridge Racer and DOA 4. There are at least 20 games from Japan on the 360.

Resident Evil 5? not out yet. it was announced for the PS3. but i'm gonna assume you mean RE4. FF has done a lot for console RPG's in general. i think it redefined the genre by being able to make it as one of the most, if not, THE most successful RPG series ever.

RE 5 was announced for the 360 last year at E3. We are talking a year ago. I would argue that FF has done more to hurt the genre then anything. Too many devs have tried to cash up creating games in the FF mold which is more of a hold your hand style adventure book then an RPG.

there are epic stories, endearing characters and usually, new features for every installment. fact of the matter is that SQUARE has put out a quality product everytime, even if the masses didn't like it. saying that something is a joke is like saying that it won't even appeal to a die hard fan or it's something that isn't worth everyone's time.

One mans "epic stories" and "endearing characters" is another mans clichéd mainstream 3rd grade mass marketed pop drivel. That’s what I get from FF and I actually read books. I read at least two a month. In the three FF games I have played its felt like the characters were right out of Beverly Hills 90210 the game world was a happy metro ***ual revival of Star Wars and the gameplay mechanics were horrible dated.

one of the reasons you stated that oblivion is better than any FF game is the 200+ hours of gameplay. if i wanted that i'd play an MMORPG. not everyone wants to spend that much time on one game. but it is an investment. but what happens when i tire of it? action heavy play?

Its 200 hours but its not stretched with random encounters and load times in-between battles. You dont have the non-stop grinding like you do in a MMOG. You also have the freedom to go through the game faster and skip the simple missions.

FFXII continues on with the same type of interface of FFXI where you still control the character during a battle and are never just standing idly by. i have no clue what you mean by role playing. if you mean with how involved you get with the storyline based on your position (if you're thrown into the world as the protagonist, or if you're just playing the protagonist with an established identity already), then most FF games have epic stories where you can get involved with the characters and understand their plight. if you were to ask most gamers what their favorite scene from an RPG game was, i'd bet that most of them would reference an FF game.

^^ perfect example of why I said FF has had a negative influence on the genre. You don’t even know what I mean by roleplaying. Play Oblivion and experience roleplaying. Naming your favorite scene is not roleplaying.

you're entitled to your opinion, but i've said it before, there's too much speculation in all of this. no one can say what system is "better" til after the systems have lived out their lives.

I’m not saying which is better I’m saying which will gain more market share. That’s just a prediction.

halo and oblivion are both also pc titles
so they arent truly exclusive either
knights of the old republic is another good example

also im not really a final fantasy fan but to not give that game its due is ****** cause that game sells 1000 times better than oblivion or any elder scrolls title ever will and its got more mass appeal than oblivion
show the numbers on ff games and oblivion lmao

Sales dont equal quality and FF does not sells much better then Oblivion. Oblivion will likely sells 3 million. The last FF game will likely sells 3.5.

lmao thank you for proving my point

doom 3? lmao
crazy taxi?
fable was one of those hyped games that didnt really live up to the hype but yeah i suppose it sold real damn well although again it was also a pc title

What do you have aginst Doom 3? My point was that its popular. It was a solid horror shooter. Also we all know the PC market does not come in great conflict with console exclusvies. Look what GTA 3 did for the PS 2 and it was also on the PC with better graphics and more options. Fable; overhyped or not is still a one of a kind RPG in many areas.

yeah microsoft got tons of money but if they were to lose 1 billion again they will get out of the gaming biz im telling you cause they gotta legally keep shareholders happy and if on 2 consoles they lose 1 billion they aint gonna go xbox720 or nextbox or whatever they would try calling it

they either have to turn a profit or show a dramatic improvement in loss with the promise of turning a profit with the next machine
thats gonna be quite an uphill battle and i definitely dont predict them to turn a profit with this xbox360

The 360 sells for a loss. Does MS sell enough software or stuff on Xbox Live to make it up? Neither one of us know the answer to that question. I'll tell you what if MS did nothing and let Sony take over home entertainment whats to Stop Sony from dropping an OS in a PS 3 or Ps 4 and jackbooting MS where they stand strong? In the long run MS could be losing less money by covering this market even if their intial cost are high.

[unit021]

Japan is not the video game capital of the world. Its a distant 2nd to the US and barley ahead of Europe when it comes to game sells. I dont even know if its still ahead of Europe anymore. Also the 360 has plenty Japanese support its just that many of the games are Japan first or Japan only, like Wrestle Kingdom, Enchanted Arm, Every Party, Rumble Roses, and the next WE game should be out in a few months or less. There are already a couple Sega titles Ridge Racer and DOA 4. There are at least 20 games from Japan on the 360.

RE 5 was announced for the 360 last year at E3. We are talking a year ago. I would argue that FF has done more to hurt the genre then anything. Too many devs have tried to cash up creating games in the FF mold which is more of a hold your hand style adventure book then an RPG.

One mans "epic stories" and "endearing characters" is another mans clichéd mainstream 3rd grade mass marketed pop drivel. That’s what I get from FF and I actually read books. I read at least two a month. In the three FF games I have played its felt like the characters were right out of Beverly Hills 90210 the game world was a happy metro ***ual revival of Star Wars and the gameplay mechanics were horrible dated.

Its 200 hours but its not stretched with random encounters and load times in-between battles. You dont have the non-stop grinding like you do in a MMOG. You also have the freedom to go through the game faster and skip the simple missions.

^^ perfect example of why I said FF has had a negative influence on the genre. You don’t even know what I mean by roleplaying. Play Oblivion and experience roleplaying. Naming your favorite scene is not roleplaying.

I’m not saying which is better I’m saying which will gain more market share. That’s just a prediction.

Sales dont equal quality and FF does not sells much better then Oblivion. Oblivion will likely sells 3 million. The last FF game will likely sells 3.5.

What do you have aginst Doom 3? My point was that its popular. It was a solid horror shooter. Also we all know the PC market does not come in great conflict with console exclusvies. Look what GTA 3 did for the PS 2 and it was also on the PC with better graphics and more options. Fable; overhyped or not is still a one of a kind RPG in many areas.

The 360 sells for a loss. Does MS sell enough software or stuff on Xbox Live to make it up? Neither one of us know the answer to that question. I'll tell you what if MS did nothing and let Sony take over home entertainment whats to Stop Sony from dropping an OS in a PS 3 or Ps 4 and jackbooting MS where they stand strong? In the long run MS could be losing less money by covering this market even if their intial cost are high.

i'd like to know where you're getting your numbers. do you have any links or printed proof that Japan is behind the US in video game sales? Japan probably has more software than the US ever sees, mainly based on the fact that it has Japan exclusive games and usually it has whatever is developed by US publishers. as for the games you listed, Wrestle Kingdom was recalled for a programming flaw that freezes the system, Every Party is an in house developed game (it's not third party), Enchant Arm looks like a decent game, but i know nothing about it. Rumble Roses was a horrible game for the PS2 and better graphics is not going to make it a better game (and i'm a wrestling fan and was interested in the game until i played it). Ridge Racer is a PS exclusive as its made by BandaiNamco. and DOA4 is more of a "base" fighter than Tekken is (look at what the competitive fighting game community has to say about it). 20 games (in a region where software sales is huge) for a system that has had dev kits sent out to publishers for what should at least be a year, is not a good number. Japanese publishers at the moment, don't seem to care about the 360. are the Japanese sales, current sales in Japan show that the 360 doesn't register on their charts. are the Euro charts. the 360 has 3 games in the top 10 and none of them are 360 exclusive. the US chart is harder to find, and i would use the gamespot one, but that information is based on one retailer (best buy), and not all retailers in the US, so i'm using this . although this chart is about a month old, it's still recent enough to use. up to a point anyway.

i missed that RE5 was announced for the 360 as well as the PS3, but the matter is that it hasn't come out yet and you were using it as a measuring stick. that's not possible at all.

you are finally getting my point in a certain way by saying that FF isn't for you. i'm saying that we're all speaking subjectively based on our likes and dislikes. you acknowledge that FF has been a dominating force in the RPG world. but still saying that it is joke, is like saying it's not worth anyone's time at all and isn't anything big at all. "hold your hand style of adventure?" is that because it's a linear game? shouldn't most games have a set of events that lead to a definite ending? i mean, if you read a book out of chapter order, would you have the same satisfaction when you were done reading the book? and while we're speaking of books, i'm glad that you read. i do too. i think that more people should read instead of being in front of the computer/tv/playing video games. i'm actually reading the life of pi right now. i finished sock a bout a week ago and i have the gospel of judas, musashi, the tipping point and ego trip's big book of racism to read. i spend more time reading than i do playing video games, but that's besides the point.

the metro***ual characters are made by the designers. where are the designers based? in japan. what's the big fashion in japan? apparently it's androgynous metro***uals. but to say that's all the characters are, is a bit much. Locke in FFVI was a theif with a heart. Cloud in FFVII was a shcizophrenic amenisiac mercenary. Squall in FFVIII was a distant "thug" with a huge chip on his shoulder. Zidane in FFIX was a theif who looked nothing like a metro***ual, he has a monkey tail. Tidus in FFX was a time displaced wanderer. FFXI has no main character, just a story you jump into. FFXII has Vaan, who looks like michael jackson with blonde hair, but is a sky pirate who's about to get involved in a civil war and a military coupe. by saying that the characters are cookie cutter metro***uals means that you aren't concerned with their backstory. and you're more focused on the visuals of a non masculine hero. but those are societal standards of another country who developed the game.

the play system that i stated in FFXI that is sort of transferred to FFXII is something that's pretty new. i'd still like to know what your definition of role playing is. if it wasn't either of the choices that i listed in my previous post (playing as a protagonist that has a definite back story or as a protagonist whose story is your own in a way), then please tell me what it is. i'm not saying that Oblivion is a bad game at any means at all, all the reviews say it's great and reading them gives me a good sense of what the game has to offer, but in the same way you say that FF isn't for you, Oblivion probably isn't for me.

are we talking about a worldwide market or a region specific market? cause that makes all the difference in the world. overall world market share will determine who is number one in the industry, not just the US.

i'm not LostGuy, but i have to agree that sales does correlate with quality in a way. if it isn't a quality product, why should anyone buy it? it might be blind loyalty, but what builds up that loyalty in the first place? a quality product.

i don't think any of us are suggesting that MS should stop selling the 360 (as that would hurt the market due to lack of competition), but most of us don't believe that the 360 is that great. i doubt that SONY would ever get involved in comp OS production, their field is electronic entertainment. MS already has a lock for the most part in the OS dept. the only comp being Apple and Linux. but most of the world runs off MS products.

[LostGuy]

fps games are better on pc than consoles
i just dont like first person shooters they are annoying to me
i like to see the full person

you contradicted yourself man you said popularity/sales dont equal quality then you said doom 3 is a popular game lmao you cant have it both ways

ff not sell much better than oblivion? sure thing buddy if you say so but they drop so many of those ff games and each one will sell like crazy so even if it is just quantity they will totally kill oblivion in sales
im not out to argue really much about that cause i really dont care about rpgs very much at all just not my type of game
i think if they came out with a good crime rpg set in oh i dont know within 100 years of me being alive then id like it

rpgs they are all in space or like some anime looking **** so far removed from anything even remotely normal that i really cant get into the storylines too much

im telling you gta the rpg would be huge

ok you say the thing about does ms sell enough xbox360 software
uh how many games does microsoft itself make cause i figured most games are 3rd party developers anyhow

i cant really say about xbox cause i dont know but ill give you this about sony for sure their 1st party titles are weak for the most part
989 sports is by far the worst sports gaming division imo although they seemed to surprisingly have the best baseball title this year that was the exception and not the rule

sonys in house games definitely had a ton more misses than hits ill give you that
socom warhawk god of war and gran turismo are really the only games they got worth mentioning and the jak and daxter platformer i guess

[JMCbulls]

i am...me and my bro have been savig up so we'll split the cost.

[Manny_P]

these XBOX fanbois are desperate trying to convince us that their 399 dollars didn't go to waste. !

[JMCbulls]

well there not oging to convince me.

xbox>ps2

ps3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>xbox360

u cant even argue at this point, even tho none of us have even played ps3

[LostGuy]

these XBOX fanbois are desperate trying to convince us that their 399 dollars didn't go to waste. !

nah it didnt go to waste just pretty expensive for a paper weight

jk seriously xbox360 i do think theres a big chance itll get the dreamcast treatment cause its gonna get pirated like crazy and this could scare away 3rd party developers
time will tell eh

i hope it dont totally fail i just sorta think it could
i kept saying dreamcast but n64 might be a better comparison

[Jarlaxle]

fps games are better on pc than consoles
i just dont like first person shooters they are annoying to me
i like to see the full person

you contradicted yourself man you said popularity/sales dont equal quality then you said doom 3 is a popular game lmao you cant have it both ways

You were the one that said the PS 2 had an an advantage in popular games and I gave Doom 3 as an example for why thats not true. I also dont think Doom 3 is at all a bad game. Turn the lights off and play by yourself and you have vintage horro action. This is not 1995 with double analog sticks and with great 3D graphics FPS arent much different on consoles for anyone that hsnt been weened on amouse.

ff not sell much better than oblivion? sure thing buddy if you say so but they drop so many of those ff games and each one will sell like crazy so even if it is just quantity they will totally kill oblivion in sales
im not out to argue really much about that cause i really dont care about rpgs very much at all just not my type of game
i think if they came out with a good crime rpg set in oh i dont know within 100 years of me being alive then id like it

rpgs they are all in space or like some anime looking **** so far removed from anything even remotely normal that i really cant get into the storylines too much

FF 12 is out in Japan and its sold about 2 million. It will likely sell another 1.5 million in Japan/US/Europe ie 3.5. Oblivion has sold about 1.5 million and seeing how big games near a launch and PC titles sell slowly it will likely sell another 1.5 ie 3 million.

im telling you gta the rpg would be huge

ok you say the thing about does ms sell enough xbox360 software
uh how many games does microsoft itself make cause i figured most games are 3rd party developers anyhow

i cant really say about xbox cause i dont know but ill give you this about sony for sure their 1st party titles are weak for the most part
989 sports is by far the worst sports gaming division imo although they seemed to surprisingly have the best baseball title this year that was the exception and not the rule

sonys in house games definitely had a ton more misses than hits ill give you that
socom warhawk god of war and gran turismo are really the only games they got worth mentioning and the jak and daxter platformer i guess

The 360 will get a simi GTA style RPG soon with Crackdown.
MS makes money off of any game sold 1st or 3rd but like I said who knows if that and the Xbox Live money is enough to turn a profit. My guess is the losses or gains will be too small to matter. I see 500 million one way or the other. Sonys first party is not that bad they just let their sports go to **** and they have too many platformers and nutty fans that think GT fell from heaven.
They also lack in RPG... why I dont know?! maybe its their way of keeping 3rd party JRPGs from Nintendo.

[Jarlaxle]

i'd like to know where you're getting your numbers. do you have any links or printed proof that Japan is behind the US in video game sales? Japan probably has more software than the US ever sees, mainly based on the fact that it has Japan exclusive games and usually it has whatever is developed by US publishers. as for the games you listed, Wrestle Kingdom was recalled for a programming flaw that freezes the system, Every Party is an in house developed game (it's not third party), Enchant Arm looks like a decent game, but i know nothing about it. Rumble Roses was a horrible game for the PS2 and better graphics is not going to make it a better game (and i'm a wrestling fan and was interested in the game until i played it). Ridge Racer is a PS exclusive as its made by BandaiNamco.

Wrestle Kingdom was only pulled for a few weeks, and Ridge Racer was a 360 launch title. Those are two games I tested. Also do you really need a link to see that the US is a larger market. Just look at NPD numbers in the US and Japan. The only thing thats really close to being even is handhelds. The US sells 3 times the hardware and software and thats without PC gamers. They also produce more. This was not true 15 years ago but today the US produces more and buys more and Europe is not far off.

you are finally getting my point in a certain way by saying that FF isn't for you. i'm saying that we're all speaking subjectively based on our likes and dislikes. you acknowledge that FF has been a dominating force in the RPG world. but still saying that it is joke, is like saying it's not worth anyone's time at all and isn't anything big at all. "hold your hand style of adventure?" is that because it's a linear game? shouldn't most games have a set of events that lead to a definite ending? i mean, if you read a book out of chapter order, would you have the same satisfaction when you were done reading the book? and while we're speaking of books, i'm glad that you read. i do too. i think that more people should read instead of being in front of the computer/tv/playing video games. i'm actually reading the life of pi right now.

I don’t think that FF is influential anymore. It used to be but now its seems like the FF series is doing more borrowing then pace setting. I rarely bash RPGs for being linear if they have a nice combat system like Icewind Dale they can still be fun. Even then I don’t see a linear game as an RPG when comparing it to a game with actual roleplaying. FF doesn’t even give you roleplaying mechanics. Even linear RPGs let you create a character or don whatever armor or weapons you would like. FF was more of an actionless adventure game until this last one that is obviously more open-ended. All RPGs are linear in the sense that they have an beginning and an end. Its whats in-between that matters and like I said if JRPGs are the only RPGs you play you will have no concept of roleplaying. Its like playing a sports game where all the players do is sit on then bench and chew tobbachy.

the metro***ual characters are made by the designers. where are the designers based? in japan. what's the big fashion in japan? apparently it's androgynous metro***uals. but to say that's all the characters are, is a bit much. Locke in FFVI was a theif with a heart. Cloud in FFVII was a shcizophrenic amenisiac mercenary. Squall in FFVIII was a distant "thug" with a huge chip on his shoulder. Zidane in FFIX was a theif who looked nothing like a metro***ual, he has a monkey tail. Tidus in FFX was a time displaced wanderer. FFXI has no main character, just a story you jump into. FFXII has Vaan, who looks like michael jackson with blonde hair, but is a sky pirate who's about to get involved in a civil war and a military coupe. by saying that the characters are cookie cutter metro***uals means that you aren't concerned with their backstory. and you're more focused on the visuals of a non masculine hero. but those are societal standards of another country who developed the game.

My character in Oblivion that I created is a woman so I don’t have a problem with non-masculine characters. My problem is that its totally market driven by pop culture even when it obviously infringes on artistic creativity. When you are forced to create a character that despite wielding a 50 pound weapon and being faced with saving the world has to look like a ***** because people like bitches something is wrong.


Also with the backstory it’s the same forced contradictions that we see in poor western writing thats another reason I dislike most RPG stories.

the play system that i stated in FFXI that is sort of transferred to FFXII is something that's pretty new. i'd still like to know what your definition of role playing is. if it wasn't either of the choices that i listed in my previous post (playing as a protagonist that has a definite back story or as a protagonist whose story is your own in a way), then please tell me what it is. i'm not saying that Oblivion is a bad game at any means at all, all the reviews say it's great and reading them gives me a good sense of what the game has to offer, but in the same way you say that FF isn't for you, Oblivion probably isn't for me.

are we talking about a worldwide market or a region specific market? cause that makes all the difference in the world. overall world market share will determine who is number one in the industry, not just the US.

Roleplaying by its self is different then roleplaying in a game. Roleplaying by itself is just pretending to be something. Kids playing Cops and Robbers is an example of roleplaying. Now when you add “game” to it the definition changes now you have a game that’s core concept is based on roleplaying. Now that kid is given a world where he can be a cop or a robber that’s where roleplaying changes from just pretending because now you have that character. So now its about being that character controlling that character and doing what you want the character to do.


Freedom is always going to be either illusionary or limited in any video game RPG. You can never do exactly what you wanted and even in a very open RPG the story is still at the very least pulling major puppet strings behind the scene. In Oblivion if you get bit by a Vampire and you don’t drink a cure disease potion you will become a Vampire. At one point in the game the devs pull those strings and just give characters the disease. So bam you are a vampire but after that you have choices. Do you
A. seek a cure immediately
B. weigh the pros and cons and decide you rather be a Vampire
C. Decide you want to be a vampire long enough to face other Vampires without worrying about catching a disease that you already have.

Each choice will have its own effects. If you stay a Vampire you will be forced to feed on people or you will never be able to go out in the day. At the same time you will become more and more powerful, while the NPCs around you react differently as you lose personality points and are forced to bite more people.

If you cure yourself you will be given an extra cure that you can give away completing a separate mission.


That’s roleplaying in a game. That’s where FF has been a joke. Its called an RPG but there is no more cause and effects to your actions then a typical movie.. its all scripted.


Until it was announced that the PS 3 would be 600 bucks I fully expected Sony to continue with a greater share of the market. Now I don’t, and that with full understanding that MS would be lucky to grab 10% of Japan.