The deadlift and boxing

[Box-Office]

I never liked doing weights. Just going to the weight room, I just feel nauseated. I just don't like it. I'd rather jog to stay fit and I hate running, so that is speaking volumes. Also I always knew boxers/martial artists are the real tough guys, so it never appealed to me.

In my opinion it can work as a great strength builder as well, but I don't see the point. I do work outs that help me burst out during sparring/fighting i.e. surprise the opponent. So, I'll substitute sprints on weekends for jogs, punching with resistance band and thinking of adding kettle bells, which seems enjoyable and I believe will help with strength like the dead lift.


At the end of the day one of the reasons I absolutely love boxing is for its individuality. You can do whatever you want because YOU got to live with the consequences. So, I ask people about diet and although the answers are quite similar, but you notice the personal touch everyone puts in their regime and that's what I like.

[Elroy1]

So long as you are doing heavy reps that doesn't make your legs beef up, but rather just adds strength its fine, good even, if you start bodybuilding by exhausting your muscles and making them grow big with higher reps like 5- 10 reps its going to cripple you as a boxer.

It will make you heavier put you in a division you dont belong and cant compete in, it will cripple your endurance, and wont do much for your power speed n foot work.

5 x 5 reps is still body building.

Bodybuilding and boxing are NOT compatible.

Most people that weight train for boxing are hurting their performance.

I wanted to reply to this post in particular Alex but the post is also general.

I am one of those guys who DOES NOT agree with weight lifting for boxing!

More specifically I definitely DO agree with it but only for top level pro boxers who undertake periodised training camps which only should perform it for the first few weeks of their preparation.

As for other boxers, only ones whom can devote their whole time to boxing like top amateurs for example but which need to fight all the time may include some limited general resistance work in their training built around exercises which do not interfere with the neural patterns specific to the mechanics of boxing.

I MUST disagree with you on the load/reps though. low rep/high weight is ok on a periodised program for pro. But for other cases, high rep/low weight is necessary.

Low weight/high rep does not fire antoagonist/agonist muscles simultaneously and screw the motor patterns up like heavy weights do. For boxers who must fight often this is paramount. On a periodised program this problem is mitigated.

And now back to the deadlift, the REASON for this thread was because even though I am in general against weight lifting and boxing overall (as in a normal multi-exercise program), I am putting forward the deadlift as one exercise which I believe can be performed at any phase of a period or for a frequent fighter and not stiffen up the muscles+joints which must stay mobile, NOT mess with any of the neural patterns no matter if you use heavy OR light weights because the upper limbs are not moving anyway! And NOT reduce speed to any degree other than a normal weight gain because it is around the legs and core anyway and may even improve these functions (except in major weight gain of course).

I also think, with correct form and caution, despite being an exercise which may cause injury, it actually protects the joints of the shoulder and spine by stabilising them.

I disagree than deadlifts of any rep regime will slow the athletes feet down, other than any weight gain. This muscle can only benefit imo, unless it pushes you into another weight class undesirably.

But let's say you DID want to go up in weight?

I'd say the deadlift would be the best exercise to do it! It puts the muscle where it's needed most distributed evenly and boosts GH and testosterone higher than any other exercise.

[Elroy1]

That's my main issue with lifting and boxing.

I agree with this too. Building up to unnatural weight classes is always gonna be undesirable performance wise of course.

Except has anybody ever TESTED this with the deadlift+boxing alone?

Every statistical example I've seen where we see performance drop as they jump weight classes and involved weights has involved full body weight training programs for the big pecs and arms etc.

But I would be curious as to whether the deadlift alone with boxing might be a way to climb divisions whilst maintaining performance to a degree.

Obviously height will come into play here eventually too. But if your gonna jump I think the dead builds the right kind of core strength in it's most raw form.

[Facade]

People put too much stock into the benefits or drawbacks of weight lifting. Weight lifting will not make you hit that much harder, it won't make you that much slower either. There are often a lot of elements at play in which your weight lifting program is just a small factor. I disagree that a lot has been proven. A lot is being theorized, like here in this thread, but very little has been proven. One of the reasons there are so many approaches i suppose.

First let's get something out of the way: It is simply not true that lifting weights will put you into a heavier weight class. Excessive eating does that, as Rockin accurately pointed out. You can lift all the weights you want, if you do not have a calorie surplus it will not matter. Therefore there is no foundation for the whole premise that an exercise 'would push you to a different weight class'.

I think the main drawback of 'building muscle' simultaneously with boxing, is that building muscle is typically aimed at creating micro-trauma in your muscle. It stands to reason that your boxing training will likely suffer because of this. You will simply have less time and your body needs time to recover. The low rep variants as 5x5 do not necessarily produce hypertrophy (if you were to have a calorie surplus..), but do put a lot of stress on your CNS. It's hard to see how that would not affect your boxing work. As the deadlift is famous for being the ultimate test of strength and using a large part of the mucles in your body, it's only reasonable to assume that any regimen aimed at building either strength or muscle gain will most likely affect your boxing work. So even though I disagree with almost everything else, I do think periodizing would be a good strategy if you were to choose to lift weights and use the deadlift as one of your main exercises.

I personally disagree with the premise that weight lifting causes the phenomenon that power isn't transferred over into higher weight classes. As i said at the beginning of this post: weight lifting won't make you punch much harder. Everybody knows however that naturally heavier guys are able to take heavier shots. If you combine those two factors (power stays the same+opponents can take heavier shots) it isn't so much that the original power doesn't transfer to higher weight classes, but rather that this power is just insufficient to get opponents on the canvas. Will deadlifts counter this effect? I don't think so.

[Spray_resistant]

That comes down to your diet. You can get very strong without the muscle mass.

You are very right on this Rockin, too many people falsely believe you have to add significant muscle mass to gain any real strength and that is just not true.

I got up to 208 and felt sluggish like I was carrying around the extra weight, its not energy efficient, feel much better and lift more at 175-180

[TheCleaner]

what height are you spray? a swing from HW back down through cruiser to lhw must have been quite a transformation.

anyway, while on the subject of the deadlift, it's an exercise I enjoyed but don't do any more as boxing 3 times a week with running, sprints and rest between those, mainly doesn't leave enough time recovery wise. I should though as I used to feel the benefits of deep stabilisation muscle development, and they will likely play a bigger role in balance / power transfer to the ground than the one jog I miss because of doing them.

the CNS debate is interesting, I wouldn't train deadlift/backsquat to failure, rather tax my CNS with heavy weight and almost single reps as doing so for me and to speed up adaptation to higher weighs without the long recovery or muscle mass increase.

[Danny Gunz]

That's my main issue with lifting and boxing.

Lifting doesn't magically put weight on your body.

If you are gaining weight it is because you are eating more, the weight will go on whether or not you are lifting.

[SthPaw]

I think the argument between boxing and weight lifting being put together will ALWAYS be argued. It has been around for years and years and will be around for even more. Too much of it comes from opinion, everybody hears different facts on this matter I find, so people run with either A) What they have been told/taught or B) What they feel personally works for them.

What one guy teaches, another guy slanders. And that is not to be too negative, it is just what it seems to be like in my opinion.

My trainer told me recently that if you insist on lifting weight for boxing, then you can use weights all you want but if you are not fighting fit, you will reap no benefits in terms of boxing. I guess what he meant was if you feel as though it benefits you, go ahead, but if you aren't ready to fight do not expect weights to get you there. I must state however, this is just an opinion of an old man telling me something and me then sharing what he said, this is not what I am preaching to people.

Personally, I feel if people want to use weights in one degree or another in their boxing training then go ahead, I do a little myself but not too much, no deadlifting I am afraid in regards to your point, but I feel the better for it compared to where I started from. Personally I feel as though the only time weights could become a negative issue is if there is a guy who trains for power lifting types of results and becomes too 'bulky', as I saw a friend do just that and it didnt turn out too well for him over time in regards to boxing.

Again though, this is just me personally based off stuff I have been told, people I have seen use different methods and things that work for me, I am not here to tell guys they are wrong or wasting time etc.

[AlexKid]

I wanted to reply to this post in particular Alex but the post is also general.

I am one of those guys who DOES NOT agree with weight lifting for boxing!

More specifically I definitely DO agree with it but only for top level pro boxers who undertake periodised training camps which only should perform it for the first few weeks of their preparation.

As for other boxers, only ones whom can devote their whole time to boxing like top amateurs for example but which need to fight all the time may include some limited general resistance work in their training built around exercises which do not interfere with the neural patterns specific to the mechanics of boxing.

I MUST disagree with you on the load/reps though. low rep/high weight is ok on a periodised program for pro. But for other cases, high rep/low weight is necessary.

Low weight/high rep does not fire antoagonist/agonist muscles simultaneously and screw the motor patterns up like heavy weights do. For boxers who must fight often this is paramount. On a periodised program this problem is mitigated.

And now back to the deadlift, the REASON for this thread was because even though I am in general against weight lifting and boxing overall (as in a normal multi-exercise program), I am putting forward the deadlift as one exercise which I believe can be performed at any phase of a period or for a frequent fighter and not stiffen up the muscles+joints which must stay mobile, NOT mess with any of the neural patterns no matter if you use heavy OR light weights because the upper limbs are not moving anyway! And NOT reduce speed to any degree other than a normal weight gain because it is around the legs and core anyway and may even improve these functions (except in major weight gain of course).

I also think, with correct form and caution, despite being an exercise which may cause injury, it actually protects the joints of the shoulder and spine by stabilising them.

I disagree than deadlifts of any rep regime will slow the athletes feet down, other than any weight gain. This muscle can only benefit imo, unless it pushes you into another weight class undesirably.

But let's say you DID want to go up in weight?

I'd say the deadlift would be the best exercise to do it! It puts the muscle where it's needed most distributed evenly and boosts GH and testosterone higher than any other exercise.

I think, that you should use a far more sport specific exercise for high reps, preferably plyometric exercises that more closely mimic the movements in boxing.

I think the only thing a deadlift is is good for in boxing is a strength base, and like you said as part of a periodized program.

Sure high reps of the dead lift probably wont do much harm, but at the same time its sub optimal because there are so many sport specific exercises available at this lower weight that will have more cross over than the deadlift. Not only that doing high rep deadlifts is strength endurance not power endurance which is what boxing is predominately about.

Further more the squat is more sport specific than the dead lift for the maximum strength phase, because it strengthens the quads more than the hamstrings, which you will feel work harder when you punch. Both work the hips/glutes quite well. But you need powerful quads for the leg drive, powerful hamstring muscles arnt as important.

[Danny Gunz]

I think, that you should use a far more sport specific exercise for high reps, preferably plyometric exercises that more closely mimic the movements in boxing.

I think the only thing a deadlift is is good for in boxing is a strength base, and like you said as part of a periodized program.

Sure high reps of the dead lift probably wont do much harm, but at the same time its sub optimal because there are so many sport specific exercises available at this lower weight that will have more cross over than the deadlift. Not only that doing high rep deadlifts is strength endurance not power endurance which is what boxing is predominately about.

Further more the squat is more sport specific than the dead lift for the maximum strength phase, because it strengthens the quads more than the hamstrings, which you will feel work harder when you punch. Both work the hips/glutes quite well. But you need powerful quads for the leg drive, powerful hamstring muscles arnt as important.

Why are you limiting it to one or the other?

Do both. Really no matter what sport you are playing the only downside of doing compound lifts is injuring yourself. If you are boxing and you aren't, at the very least, doing deadlifts, squats, cleans, and overhead press then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage.

In regards to the bolded, squats and deads are the absolute best thing you can do for the posterior chain. To try and break it down by saying squats work your quads, and deads work the hamstrings is such an insane under exaggeration of what they do. The reason they are so widely practiced in EVERY sport is because they exhaust an insane amount of muscles in the body.