If Andre Ward had not ducked fighting in other countries during the Super Six

[JDD1]

Would you have more respect for him?

Kessler fought in the USA
Taylor fought in Germany
Abraham fought twice in the USA
Froch fought in Denmark, Finland and the USA
Dirrell fought in the UK

No. where you beat someone doesn't matter.

Your premise is faulty with all due respect. You ask the question as if its about bravery or courage when that has nothing to do with it.

The fighters came to the US because its where Showtime determined they could make the most profit given their resources. Fighters from outside the US come here because the best competition and (almost always) the most money is here.

Its dishonest to suggest ward not fighting the super six outside the US in any way diminshes what he accomplished.

[BattlingNelson]

I don't think they were all set before the tournament, maybe the first round. I remember in watching the fight camp 360 episode where Goossen makes a big point about how Andre doesn't travel even if he has to take a financial cut to fight at home. If they were all set he wouldn't have had to argue this.

Also they matchups were dependent on who won and lost in each round so there was no way to set the locations before they knew the fights. And if they were set before, the Abraham vs Froch fight wouldn't be able to have been negotiated for a neutral venue when neither could agree to fight at the others home

You remember somewhat wrong. Goosen came out and said he could barely believe they gave Ward homefield throughout. They knew how important that would be and the tournament proved it: Not a single fight was won by the visiting fighter. Not one!

[junior gong]

No. where you beat someone doesn't matter.

Your premise is faulty with all due respect. You ask the question as if its about bravery or courage when that has nothing to do with it.

The fighters came to the US because its where Showtime determined they could make the most profit given their resources. Fighters from outside the US come here because the best competition and (almost always) the most money is here.

Its dishonest to suggest ward not fighting the super six outside the US in any way diminshes what he accomplished.

No it isnt. Fighting at home can have a huge or little effect and it varies from fighter to fighter. We'll never know with Ward because he refuses to do it, which sucks.

[JDD1]

No it isnt. Fighting at home can have a huge or little effect and it varies from fighter to fighter. We'll never know with Ward because he refuses to do it, which sucks.

The decision as to where fights are staged has nothing to do with the fighter. The promoter and the networks make those decisions and its driven by profit. Its likely far less exspensive for Showtime to do a fight in the US than overseas.

The notion that ward has to fight these guys in their country for it to mean something is ******ed. Ward won the SUper SIx because he is far better than everyone at 168.

[BattlingNelson]

No. where you beat someone doesn't matter.

No. It does matter. Beating a home fighter 9 timezones away in aliencountry is very difficult.

Your premise is faulty with all due respect. You ask the question as if its about bravery or courage when that has nothing to do with it.

The fighters came to the US because its where Showtime determined they could make the most profit given their resources.

Wrong. Abraham and particularly Kessler would have generated a much bigger revenue had they fought at home. That is not up for debate. Goosen gave an ultimatum. Homefield for Ward throughout the groupstage or no participation. Goosen could hardly believe the other promotors bought it, but they did.

Fighters from outside the US come here because the best competition and (almost always) the most money is here.

Possible. Not in this case though, so that point is irrelevant.

Its dishonest to suggest ward not fighting the super six outside the US in any way diminshes what he accomplished.

I dont know if it diminishes it as everyone is aware of the foul play. What is clear is that had he won abroad his legacy would have been enhanced.

[JDD1]

No. It does matter. Beating a home fighter 9 timezones away in aliencountry is very difficult.

Wrong. Abraham and particularly Kessler would have generated a much bigger revenue had they fought at home. That is not up for debate. Goosen gave an ultimatum. Homefield for Ward throughout the groupstage or no participation. Goosen could hardly believe the other promotors bought it, but they did.

Possible. Not in this case though, so that point is irrelevant.

I dont know if it diminishes it as everyone is aware of the foul play. What is clear is that had he won abroad his legacy would have been enhanced.

Then don't come to the US. Stay at home in abscurity. No fighter is forced to come to the US to fight. They do so because it pays well.

Then you are confirming the decision was made by the promoter and not the fighter. good, thats what I said to the other poster. If showtime thought they would make more overseas, they would have gone there.

See 1st point. Coming to the US is a choice. If you don't want to, don't come.

His legacy may have been enhanced to non US citizens whose criticisms are not valid given the bias and whining.

The other fighters lost because they weren't as good as ward. Non US posters are saying location was a major issue because its the only excuse they have that those guys lost.

Do what Marvin Hagler did-go there, kick ass, go home.

[BattlingNelson]

Then don't come to the US. Stay at home in abscurity. No fighter is forced to come to the US to fight. They do so because it pays well.

If this quote is directed at the s6 then it is wrong. Neither Kessler nor Abraham did it for the money. They did it for glory. If it was just about the money, they wouldn't have participated. They left a lot of cash at home by entering and by giving in to Goosens ultimatum.

Then you are confirming the decision was made by the promoter and not the fighter. good, thats what I said to the other poster. If showtime thought they would make more overseas, they would have gone there.

Showtime only insisted on the finals being held in the states. All the other fight locations was to be determined by the promotors.

I dont know if you are aware of it, but Showtime wasn't the only investing broadcaster. Major networks in Germany, UK and Denmark was in on this.

See 1st point. Coming to the US is a choice. If you don't want to, don't come.

Yeah, but thats hardly the point here is it? It's about having a level playing field. Everybody travelled to an opponents backyard in this tournament. Everybody but Ward that is.

The point is whether that was fair or not fair. What do you think?

His legacy may have been enhanced to non US citizens whose criticisms are not valid given the bias and whining.

Funny schit. Ha ha ha.

The other fighters lost because they weren't as good as ward. Non US posters are saying location was a major issue because its the only excuse they have that those guys lost.

Do what Marvin Hagler did-go there, kick ass, go home.

Who knows about Ward. Has he ever travelled to fight for a professional championship 9 timezones away and with locally appointed officials? You dont have to answer.

[JDD1]

If this quote is directed at the s6 then it is wrong. Neither Kessler nor Abraham did it for the money. They did it for glory. If it was just about the money, they wouldn't have participated. They left a lot of cash at home by entering and by giving in to Goosens ultimatum.

Showtime only insisted on the finals being held in the states. All the other fight locations was to be determined by the promotors.

I dont know if you are aware of it, but Showtime wasn't the only investing broadcaster. Major networks in Germany, UK and Denmark was in on this.

Yeah, but thats hardly the point here is it? It's about having a level playing field. Everybody travelled to an opponents backyard in this tournament. Everybody but Ward that is.


Funny schit. Ha ha ha.

Who knows about Ward. Has he ever travelled to fight for a professional championship 9 timezones away and with locally appointed officials? You dont have to answer.

That is because the promoters didn't make him because the US, whether you wil, admit it or not, is where fighters come to make it. The other promoters allowed it because they wanted their fighters to get exsposure in the US.

Please don't ever again say a fighter fought for glory. This is there job. They fought for the chance to earn money and the chance to get exsposure in the US so they could make more money.

If the mecca of boxing was 9 time zones away your question would be valid. But it isn't. Maybe if Macaua becomes the boxing mecca we will see. Either way the ring is the same size no matter where it is. Ward is still a a better fighter than everyone who enetered the super 6.

Like I said with Marvin-go there, kick ass, go home. If anyone other than ward was good enough, that would've happened. The reason Kessler, Froch and Abraham lost was the same reason alan minter lost.

[junior gong]

That is because the promoters didn't make him because the US, whether you wil, admit it or not, is where fighters come to make it. The other promoters allowed it because they wanted their fighters to get exsposure in the US.

Please don't ever again say a fighter fought for glory. This is there job. They fought for the chance to earn money and the chance to get exsposure in the US so they could make more money.

If the mecca of boxing was 9 time zones away your question would be valid. But it isn't. Maybe if Macaua becomes the boxing mecca we will see. Either way the ring is the same size no matter where it is. Ward is still a a better fighter than everyone who enetered the super 6.

Like I said with Marvin-go there, kick ass, go home. If anyone other than ward was good enough, that would've happened. The reason Kessler, Froch and Abraham lost was the same reason alan minter lost.

Sorry, but there is no way Ward would have gotten away with the constant fouling in the Kessler fight away from home. No way. I'm picking up a huge amount of bias on your part and I'm a Ward fan.

[JDD1]

Sorry, but there is no way Ward would have gotten away with the constant fouling in the Kessler fight away from home. No way. I'm picking up a huge amount of bias on your part and I'm a Ward fan.

If you say so. Kessler has never been nor will he ever be as good as andre ward. this is why he lost. If the same ref assigned the fight remains the same.

NO bias. You guys are stubbornly sticking with location playing more of a role than talent, skill and speed. THis way it appears as a valid reason why they lost and, probably, why a rematch between these fighters should happen when none is truly warranted.

There is a reason my point about Hagler was ignored. He went and kicked Minter's ass. Those guys should've done same and would've if they were better.

In another thread I made the point that if a US soccer player wants to be considered the best, he has to go overseas to prove it. He will never get that respect winning just here in the US pro league.