Toney or Wlad

[HipsterRan]

Sanders was 225 when he beat Wlad.

Ok , but thats not a limitation , that made him even more dangerous !

[FibreOptic]

Ok , but thats not a limitation , that made him even more dangerous !

I am not saying it was. It is too bad we can't see more of Sanders. He was supposed to fight after Alexi Varakin, but hurt his back.

[Nautilus]

I actually now think that Wlad would beat James very badly -- too much weight advantage coupled with superb boxing skills for Wlad.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

Here's the thing. Against a fighter like Toney, straight punches don't land. And Wlad will stay on the oustide as much as he can, but Toney's too good and too experienced not too get inside. He just has to be fired-up and motivated.

Wlad's biggest weakness is his stamina, not his chin. His poor stamina is reliable, his shaky chin doesn't always have an effect on the outcome of the fight.

Ruiz won 3-4 rounds against a Toney who had had a week to prepare. And, I'm not gonna lie and say that Ruiz is better than he looks, but he is harder to beat than you'd think. His unorthodox style is harder to beat than Wlad's style.

Wlad has the accuracy to land on Toney, end of story. If Toney gets inside, he's gonna get hit and he's not gonna like it. Stamina was not an issue vs Byrd for Wlad, and it will not be an issue vs another blown up 168 lbs fighter in Toney. Wlad's "stamina" problem (chin) only comes into play vs bigger punchers.

Toney had plenty more than a week to prepare for Ruiz. That's just disinformation. Ruiz's style wasn't that unorthodox vs Toney. He had tried to fight more regular, believing that would get him more fans.

[whdempsey]

shut the hell up, u dont know ****...

I see. Prove it you fat mother's clit sucking piece of ****. Is that picture of you? And you're proud of that fat ****in mug? How bout you get off the computer, go back and give your sister a rim job and then mebbe try reading a few books about boxing. You do realize that's what we're talking about here, right? Silly ****er.

Edit: I decided this was too mean and that I didn't mean most of what I said. I'm leaving it cuz I think it's a nice burn. But here's the edited version:

You're wildly out of line. You offered no rebuttal or argument against me. And I would like to hear you justify that ABSURD excuse. VASELINE? Has ANYONE else EVER said that?

[Bozo_no no]

Toney had a chance to face Vitali- they offered him a title shot and a 60/40 split almost immediately after the Ruiz fight, and Goosen/Toney turned it down. Toney was never serious about facing Vitali, he just used his name for publicity, I feel (such as calling him out on the BDSSP). It's no coincidence that as soon as Vitali retires, then Toney is fighting for the WBC belt, and will surely make less money than he would have facing Vitali last Sept.

This is non sense.

Toney was offered 65-35 and turned it down. Less than a week later, he countered with 60-40, and Finkle's response was that they were "Too far along in negotiations with Oleg Maskaev".

It's funny that you suggest Toney wanted nothing to do with Vitali when he was the one who was looking to face Oleg Maskaev instead.

You should get your facts straight before you attempt to educate others.

[Bozo_no no]

And before you get all bent out of shape, here's the interview with Dan Goosen:

GL: A couple of weeks ago I spoke with you and James shortly after Vitali Klitschko expressed his interest in the Toney fight. Since then Vitali has become interested in fighting Oleg Maskaev on September 24. What happened with the Klitschko negotiations that caused them to move on from Toney to Maskaev?


"We made one mistake Greg, we accepted. I don't think Vitali thought James would be willing to fight him. As it relates to Oleg Maskaev, it's a typical move by Vitali. He's fighting someone that no one cares about. Fighting someone that doesn't do anything but hurt you and then you wonder why you don't sell tickets or PPV. It's because he doesn't want to take any risk."

GL: So when you say you accepted it does that mean that your intitial position which demanded parity changed ,and you accepted their 65-35 offer and then they reneged?

Dan Goossen: "No. What we've done is gone out there and said that we would accept the fight with better terms. But no matter what they said or we said, it's was all part of trying to make a deal happen."

GL: So do you believe Klitschko's intentions to fight Toney were merely smoke and mirrors?

Dan Goossen: "Well, we're going to find out. I'm going to tell you that after talking to James last week. I was supposed to hear back from Shelly (Finkel) last week but I didn't hear back from him because he was busy with Tyson. But after speaking with James we will accept a 60-40 split to fight them. And that's an offer that I'm making them right now. We're ready to prove our worth. The heavyweight division needs to move and James seems to be the leader as it relates to fighting the best and toughest out there. He always has been and he always will be."

"I got to give credit to Hasim Rahman. He also seems willing to fight everyone, and the same goes for Chris Byrd. I have a feeling that Brewster would too. The one trying to keep the donkey's in front of him is Vitali. It always has been. I think this is a situation of a fighter not trying to expose himself while trying to make as much money as he can. We all know that James Toney is at worst one of the biggest fights out there. When you go from the upper echelon to the third tier it's shameful. This is a man who beat Quinn Navarre and Sedrick Fields to earn the right to fight Vitali Klitschko?"

"At least Rid**** Bowe threw his belt in the trash. Vitali seems to pick up his opponents from there."

"As far as I'm concerned I'm putting an offer out there it's up to them whether they want to accept or decline it. James Toney is on board, we're ready to fight him 60-40. Now it's all up to whether or not he wants to go out there and prove his worth. To sit there and have him fight Maskaev, I mean, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten Kevin McBride. Vitali needs to stop claiming that he is the best because the best don't act like this."

[Chet's Revenge]

I dont know who would win. This would have to be one of the most unique fights in the heavyweight divison probably within the past 20 years. You have in Wlad basically the biggest most physically talented heavyweight on one side, in his prime, probably the best offensive fighter in the heavyweight division but also a very poor chin.

On the other side you have an aging fighter in James Toney, who you cannot consider by any means as physically gifted as far as top notch heavyweights are concerned but is then probably without a doubt one of the toughest and for sure most savy and best defensive fighters in the heavyweight division.

In short you basically have polar opposites here. Both have glaring weaknesses and both have great strengths. Makes for a very intriguing fight and one that would actually be worthy of a pay-per-view. I dont know who would win with any certainty which makes it all the better. Hope this fight happens.

[mECHsLAVE]

I'm pretty sure Finkel has said somewhere that they were offered 60-40 and turned it down. Goosen admits to turning down 65-35 with ppv options, which to me means you don't want to fight the guy.

Toney had JUST tested positive for steroids, banned by the WBA for 2 years, by all organizations for 3 months, etc etc and he gets an offer to make more than he's made in his career for a fight EVER probably to face Vitali and fight for the most recognized title in the world- against a guy who he constantly calls out, and he turns it down? Over 5%?

I don't know, call me crazy, but to me that means you might not want to fight the guy. Hehe.

And yeah, Vitali wanted a warm-up before Rahman. He offered it to Toney, who turned it down, then apparently started negotiations with Maskaev which didn't bear fruit either.

You're saying "this is non sense" (nonsense is one word, btw, genius) over basically 5%. (And I still believe Finkel states somewhere that they turned down 60/40 but I really have no desire to try and dig through the BT archives, as you do, to search for old interviews about completely moot negotiations because I have a vendetta against a certain poster who made a fool out of me in another thread. Hehe.)

Vitali offered Toney the fight, more money than Toney could make fighting anyone else possible, and Toney turned it down. Period.

[Bozo_no no]

I'm pretty sure Finkel has said somewhere that they were offered 60-40 and turned it down. Goosen admits to turning down 65-35 with ppv options, which to me means you don't want to fight the guy.

Toney had JUST tested positive for steroids, banned by the WBA for 2 years, by all organizations for 3 months, etc etc and he gets an offer to make more than he's made in his career for a fight EVER probably to face Vitali and fight for the most recognized title in the world- against a guy who he constantly calls out, and he turns it down? Over 5%?

I don't know, call me crazy, but to me that means you might not want to fight the guy. Hehe.

And yeah, Vitali wanted a warm-up before Rahman. He offered it to Toney, who turned it down, then apparently started negotiations with Maskaev which didn't bear fruit either.

You're saying "this is non sense" (nonsense is one word, btw, genius) over basically 5%. (And I still believe Finkel states somewhere that they turned down 60/40 but I really have no desire to try and dig through the BT archives, as you do, to search for old interviews about completely moot negotiations because I have a vendetta against a certain poster who made a fool out of me in another thread. Hehe.)

Vitali offered Toney the fight, more money than Toney could make fighting anyone else possible, and Toney turned it down. Period.

You were wrong about 60/40, the offer was for 65/35. Toney's camp came back with a counter offer of 60/40, and Vitali's camp said they were too far along in negotiations with Oleg Maskaev.

Your assertion that Toney didn't want to fight Vitali was incorrect. If anything, it was compltely the other way around.

The "5%" you speak about was negotiating. They turned down 65/35 and countered with 60/40 the next week. That's common place in negotiating a fight.

When you think about the difference in what the 60% of a purse would have been in a Toney fight for Vitali vs even 80% of a purse vs Maskaev, you get and even clearer picture. Vitali would have made much more money fighting Toney, even at a 60% split. If anything speaks on who didn't want to fight who, that was it.

They looked towards Maskaev because they weren't serious about fighting Toney, and wanted an easier fight.