How well would gervonta Davis have done 20 years ago?

[HisExcellency]

All that garbage which merely proves the point that PBC affiliation is an obstacle for unification, not affiliation with other companies. You couldn't even get the facts straight about who promotes who, and if you had any intent to be honest here, you would realize that PBC is absolutely full of fighters who don't want to fight. You even use the PBC term "side of the street" which is literally just PBC excuses not to fight. We see that CONSTANTLY from PBC fighters. Take a good look at the activity level of the main PBC fighters and champs. Lara, Adames, Charlo, Charlo, Spence, Thurman, Tank, etc... Does that inactivity and constant ducking of every non PBC fighter sound like a Top Rank problem, as you claimed?

And regardless of affiliation, Tank is NOT contracted to PBC, so any choice to insert PBC into negotiations to prevent the fight from happening is entirely on him. He's a free agent, so he has to choose to make it an issue. And he does.



I have not once claimed to be some fount of boxing history knowledge. I've just had to correct your repeated and apparently deliberate mistakes and errors on several occasions because you can't admit when you're wrong. Tank isn't a 3 weight champion, as you claimed. He's barely a 2 weight one, since he's not the WBA (super) champion, and one existed when he got his belt, he didn't fight any of the full champions, then got upgraded from regular to WBA champion by email. That's just facts.

You want me to say he's on some mythical P4P list? First, P4P is just a popularity contest. I've never said he's a bad fighter, just that, factually, he's avoided top competition his entire career since leaving 130. You sound like his mother with your demurrals. The corrections I've made to your silly rants have all been verifiable fact, which is why you're alone in here defending your hero.

Second, P4P is fundamentally about showing skills vs top competition. He's a year away from retirement, and, as you yourself said, he's still missing the resume. He's clearly at a pretty high level, but we will likely NEVER know what that level is precisely because his resume is lacking. As far as being on MY P4P top 10, there's just too many guys who have better accomplishments and resumes.

Usyk, Inoue, Crawford are clearly 1-3. Beterbiev, Canelo, Bivol, Bam Rodriguez are consensus 4-7, in not necessarily that particular order. Real 3 division champ Junto Nakatani is on most lists, and there's a laundry list of other guys who have better accomplishments, even potentially the aforementioned Errol Spence Jr. Teo certainly has a better resume. Within lightweight alone, can you HONESTLY say that Tank Davis has a better claim than, say, Shakur Stevenson or Lomachenko, without ever proving he could beat them? And that's leaving out Devin Haney, etc. All you have is your unproven feeling that he would beat them, and he's never going to validate that because he's too busy taking your money against the Rolly Romero, Ryan Garcia, etc level of opposition.

As I have said before, Tank Davis COULD have been a real P4P talent, based on eye test. But we'll never know, because he's consistently chosen to never actually test himself.

Ring is no longer the authority it once was, thanks to selling out, like so many other things in boxing. But since you value it so highly, go look at where Ring ranked his opponents at the time of fight, and see for yourself how his resume actually stacks up from the Ring perspective.

You keep trying to pretend I've said Tank sucks or something, because that's a clear straw man. Stop reading more into it. I said he's not a 3 division champion, and he's not. I said he's not fought the top guys since leaving 130, and he hasn't. And I said that we will never know where he stacks up because his resume is lacking, and he plans to retire at the end of the year, and that's what he's said his plans are. I would love for him to finally prove himself by fighting any of Shakur, Loma (if he still wants to fight, and that's gonna have an asterisk because it should have happened 5 years ago), Teo, Haney, or even the winner of Berinchyk v Keyshawn. But he won't. He's a great businessman, and has done very well for himself financially, which was always what he wanted. And he's clearly got the necessary package to be more than he is. But you're deluding yourself if you think he will ever dare to be great by taking on real challenges.

Lol all that WAFFLE (of which the vast majority is pure conjecture on your part e.g. PBC fighters don't want to fight, Tank isn't a top p4p fighter etc. as opposed to objective fact) and you STILL didn't answer the question at hand!

Whilst I AGREE with your claims that Tank hasn't faced the best fighters at Lightweight (we can disregard Super Welterweight since he only had ONE fight against Barrios) e.g. Shakur, Teofimo, Kambosos, Loma & Haney. However, like I told you a million times before, the biggest obstacle in making these match ups was the inter-promoter rivalry between Top Rank & PBC since Teofimo, Loma & Shakur are Top Rank fighters whereas Haney & Kambosos only became recognised names after being affiliated with them.

Don't believe me? Name some Top Rank vs. PBC fights over the past decade besides Mayweather vs. Pacquiao pls...

PS: I've got NO problem admitting when I'm wrong, for example, I incorrectly stated that Tank was a 3 weight world champion instead of 2 and held the full title at 140lbs instead of 135lbs

[crimsonfalcon07]

Lol all that WAFFLE (of which the vast majority is pure conjecture on your part e.g. PBC fighters don't want to fight, Tank isn't a top p4p fighter etc. as opposed to objective fact) and you STILL didn't answer the question at hand!

Whilst I AGREE with your claims that Tank hasn't faced the best fighters at Lightweight (we can disregard Super Welterweight since he only had ONE fight against Barrios) e.g. Shakur, Teofimo, Kambosos, Loma & Haney. However, like I told you a million times before, the biggest obstacle in making these match ups was the inter-promoter rivalry between Top Rank & PBC since Teofimo, Loma & Shakur are Top Rank fighters whereas Haney & Kambosos only became recognised names after being affiliated with them.

Don't believe me? Name some Top Rank vs. PBC fights over the past decade besides Mayweather vs. Pacquiao pls...

PS: I've got NO problem admitting when I'm wrong, for example, I incorrectly stated that Tank was a 3 weight world champion instead of 2 and held the full title at 140lbs instead of 135lbs

We're mostly in agreement now.

My point, if you read back, is that PBC, not Top Rank, is the major obstacle. Top Rank fighters have unified with fighters under other promoters regularly. But fighters go to PBC to be inactive and not unify unless it's in house. That's just historical fact. You could do as I suggested and look at the activity and records of the PBC fighters (I even listed them for you) if you are actually interested in factual accuracy.

You claimed it was the fault of the OTHER fighters, falsely claiming they were all Top Rank, when in fact they represented Lou Di Bella and Matchroom, among others. Then you falsely claimed Tank was under contract with PBC for relevant years. The fact is that it's always been PBC that's the problem. They are the ones who avoid cross promotion except under cases in which there's too much money to be made otherwise. If you don't understand this, there's really nothing more to be said to you. If there's promotional issues with making fights, it's on Tank's side. And since he's been a free agent since 2022, those issues are still on him, not on the other fighters. He's the one who has been avoiding top competition since he left 130, and let's also point out that he never unified against the other champs there, unlike, say, Shakur. If he wanted to fight top guys, he could have crossed the street. But he never did, and never will.

140 is relevant because he chose to pursue a fake title against a cherry picked opponent while there was an undisputed champion in the division. And he put a rehydration clause on Barrios to weaken him further to boot. The only point of that fight was to get casuals to think he's a 3 division champ. And it worked, as evidenced by yourself. But Barrios was nowhere near the top of 140 at the time, and he also avoided call-outs from his peers at 135 to do so.

And you gotta quit with the hypocrisy. I've asked you tons of questions that you've ignored, such as if you can honestly say that Tank, with his lack of record, deserves to be ahead of Shakur, Haney, Loma, Teo, etc, all of whom HAVE actually faced top guys in their divisions. I've asked you to go and look at how many guys in his resume were actually ranked in his division at the time of fight and compare that to his peers. That's all relevant if you want to claim that everyone should have him ranked as a P4P fighter.

And you apparently need to be corrected again, because Tank doesn't hold the full WBA belt, which is the Super belt. He was the Regular titlist (and you need to go read and educate yourself about the sordid history of that abomination), and since the REAL WBA champ vacated, he's their sole remaining titlist in the division. That doesn't make him the full champ, as he didn't actually get upgraded to Super. I admit the WBA has had far too many belts, and it's difficult for a casual to understand, but the simple fact of the matter is that the 4 legit and widely recognized world titles are the WBC, WBA (Super), WBO, and IBF. Tank Davis has only held any of those belts at 130. So even calling him a two division titlist is stretching the truth.

I have no issue if YOU want to place him on a pedestal. But don't be surprised if myself and others see his resume and his consistent avoidance of top competition as issues with determining where he really stands. He could actually be a top P4P guy. But I suspect we'll never actually know for sure because he will retire without fighting the guys who would have shown us the truth. He, like many of his compatriots, will go down in history more in context of what might have been than what he actually did. But props to him for making big money fighting lesser competition and getting out with his brain intact. I respect that, and that, unlike certain other top guys, he's always been clear that he's in it for the money and isn't lying about fighting for legacy while ducking the biggest threats.

[HisExcellency]

We're mostly in agreement now.

My point, if you read back, is that PBC, not Top Rank, is the major obstacle. Top Rank fighters have unified with fighters under other promoters regularly. But fighters go to PBC to be inactive and not unify unless it's in house. That's just historical fact. You could do as I suggested and look at the activity and records of the PBC fighters (I even listed them for you) if you are actually interested in factual accuracy.

You claimed it was the fault of the OTHER fighters, falsely claiming they were all Top Rank, when in fact they represented Lou Di Bella and Matchroom, among others. Then you falsely claimed Tank was under contract with PBC for relevant years. The fact is that it's always been PBC that's the problem. They are the ones who avoid cross promotion except under cases in which there's too much money to be made otherwise. If you don't understand this, there's really nothing more to be said to you. If there's promotional issues with making fights, it's on Tank's side. And since he's been a free agent since 2022, those issues are still on him, not on the other fighters. He's the one who has been avoiding top competition since he left 130, and let's also point out that he never unified against the other champs there, unlike, say, Shakur. If he wanted to fight top guys, he could have crossed the street. But he never did, and never will.

140 is relevant because he chose to pursue a fake title against a cherry picked opponent while there was an undisputed champion in the division. And he put a rehydration clause on Barrios to weaken him further to boot. The only point of that fight was to get casuals to think he's a 3 division champ. And it worked, as evidenced by yourself. But Barrios was nowhere near the top of 140 at the time, and he also avoided call-outs from his peers at 135 to do so.

And you gotta quit with the hypocrisy. I've asked you tons of questions that you've ignored, such as if you can honestly say that Tank, with his lack of record, deserves to be ahead of Shakur, Haney, Loma, Teo, etc, all of whom HAVE actually faced top guys in their divisions. I've asked you to go and look at how many guys in his resume were actually ranked in his division at the time of fight and compare that to his peers. That's all relevant if you want to claim that everyone should have him ranked as a P4P fighter.

And you apparently need to be corrected again, because Tank doesn't hold the full WBA belt, which is the Super belt. He was the Regular titlist (and you need to go read and educate yourself about the sordid history of that abomination), and since the REAL WBA champ vacated, he's their sole remaining titlist in the division. That doesn't make him the full champ, as he didn't actually get upgraded to Super. I admit the WBA has had far too many belts, and it's difficult for a casual to understand, but the simple fact of the matter is that the 4 legit and widely recognized world titles are the WBC, WBA (Super), WBO, and IBF. Tank Davis has only held any of those belts at 130. So even calling him a two division titlist is stretching the truth.

I have no issue if YOU want to place him on a pedestal. But don't be surprised if myself and others see his resume and his consistent avoidance of top competition as issues with determining where he really stands. He could actually be a top P4P guy. But I suspect we'll never actually know for sure because he will retire without fighting the guys who would have shown us the truth. He, like many of his compatriots, will go down in history more in context of what might have been than what he actually did. But props to him for making big money fighting lesser competition and getting out with his brain intact. I respect that, and that, unlike certain other top guys, he's always been clear that he's in it for the money and isn't lying about fighting for legacy while ducking the biggest threats.

LMAO...you have the audacity to critique and 'correct' my work yet your reply is riddled with ERRORS! For example, you falsely claimed that fighters join PBC in order to be inactive (makes absolutely ZERO sense since they're prize fighters lol) and only unify in house. However, that is simply NOT true. For example, Erislandy Lara unified against Delvin Rodriguez who was promoted by Star Boxing at the time whereas Jermell Charlo unified against BOTH Jeison Rosario & Brian Castano who were promoted by Sampson Lewkowicz and TGB Promotions respectively. Also, if PBC fighters only unified against each other, how come Lara & Adames haven't fought each other despite both being champions in the same weight class? As for the other PBC fighters you listed e.g. Spence & Thurman, everybody knows that PBC was extremely STRONG in the Welterweight division (ditto for Top Rank & Lightweights!) which is why Thurman only unified against Garcia whereas Spence unified against both Porter & Ugas. In fact, the only other fighter in the division who held a belt (Crawford) was signed to Top Rank which is why Spence had to wait for him to become a free agent in order to unify just like I told you all along!

Also, I NEVER claimed it was the other fighters fault for not fighting Tank but blamed the inter-promoter rivalry between Top Rank & PBC instead so stop lying! Also, like I told you many times before, Haney only became a legitimate champion (as opposed to an e-mail champ) AFTER beating Kambosos under the Top Rank banner whereas Kambosos himself was a non-entity until he beat a Top Rank fighter and was then subsequently promoted by them.

You also lay the blame solely on PBC's shoulders for the failed fight negotiations between Tank and Top Rank's Lightweights yet have absolutely NO evidence whatsoever to support your claim. How do you know? Were you sitting at the negotiating table or participating in calls? I think not so STOP acting like some ultimate authority on the situation when you're anything but. Also, Tank is a prize fighter at the end of the day so if he decided to continue fighting under the PBC banner then it was a business decision which has obviously paid off since he's already talking about retiring at just 30yo. Also, let's not forget that Top Rank has a reputation for being stingy (especially with black fighters) which is why both Crawford & Mayweather left in order to get paid. In fact, Crawford is still fighting at 37yo because he fought under Top Rank for 90% his career yet you have the audacity to blame Tank for NOT joining those cheapskates lmao!

Sorry no but 140lbs ISN'T relevant to this discussion because Tank only had ONE fight in that division back in 2021 and hasn't returned since. He also hasn't won a legitimate belt in that weight class either. Also, since Tank is currently the ONLY WBA titleholder @ 135lbs, I definitely consider him a legitimate champion (as does everybody else in the boxing community besides you) unlike @ 140lbs.

Lastly, as for Tank's current p4p ranking vs the other fighters you listed, that's a completely SEPARATE discussion which I don't want to get into since we're already having enough trouble discussing his p4p credentials. However, what I will say is that unlike Loma & Teo (and really Haney), Tank has NO losses on his resume and no lacklustre performances either (e.g. Teo vs Martin/Ortiz) and has FINISHED 28 of his 30 opponents inside the distance in 3 weight classes which is probably why he's a p4p favourite.

[crimsonfalcon07]

Snip:

You don't even hear yourself, clearly. Answer your own question. Why HAVEN'T PBC champions Adames and Lara unified. PBC fighters don't fight tough fights unless it's in-house, and not also even then. Go back and answer the questions. Look through that PBC roster and compare activity, especially vs ranked opponents. PBC is the obstacle historically more than any other promoter. Which you'd know if you were actually a fan. But you clearly started following it about the same time that the Saudis got involved. PBC is the only promoter whose fighters came up with "side of the street". Again, if there's cross-promotional issues, that's on the side of the Protected Boxers Club. It's all there in the historical record.

They're prize fighters who nevertheless turn down big fights if they're dangerous opponents. Jermall couldn't even get in the ring for the Canelo payday so his little brother had to sub in for him. Classic PBC fighter. Their champs are all sitting inactive, or fighting weak opponents.

And Tank is one of the worst. He's fighting a 130lber who lost to Jamel Herring, rather than the guy who defeated Herring, and you know what his excuse is? He says "what has Shakur accomplished?" More than Roach, that's for sure! Who's the backup for this 130lber he's dragging up to 135? Is it a ranked 135 lb fighter? Nope. It's Mark Magsayo, who started at 126, and isn't even top 20 in his own division. I'm done dignifying your nonsense. Tank has spent his career fighting lesser competition, and frankly, it's not that hard to finish guys who aren't on your level.

[HisExcellency]

You don't even hear yourself, clearly. Answer your own question. Why HAVEN'T PBC champions Adames and Lara unified. PBC fighters don't fight tough fights unless it's in-house, and not also even then. Go back and answer the questions. Look through that PBC roster and compare activity, especially vs ranked opponents. PBC is the obstacle historically more than any other promoter. Which you'd know if you were actually a fan. But you clearly started following it about the same time that the Saudis got involved. PBC is the only promoter whose fighters came up with "side of the street". Again, if there's cross-promotional issues, that's on the side of the Protected Boxers Club. It's all there in the historical record.

They're prize fighters who nevertheless turn down big fights if they're dangerous opponents. Jermall couldn't even get in the ring for the Canelo payday so his little brother had to sub in for him. Classic PBC fighter. Their champs are all sitting inactive, or fighting weak opponents.

And Tank is one of the worst. He's fighting a 130lber who lost to Jamel Herring, rather than the guy who defeated Herring, and you know what his excuse is? He says "what has Shakur accomplished?" More than Roach, that's for sure! Who's the backup for this 130lber he's dragging up to 135? Is it a ranked 135 lb fighter? Nope. It's Mark Magsayo, who started at 126, and isn't even top 20 in his own division. I'm done dignifying your nonsense. Tank has spent his career fighting lesser competition, and frankly, it's not that hard to finish guys who aren't on your level.

I'm NOT going to waste anymore time looking into PBC fighters resumes as I already disproved your FALSE claims about them only unifying in-house after listing the examples of Lara & Charlo. I also explained that PBC's Welterweight division was STACKED at the time which is why Thurman & Spence unified in-house. Adames fighting Sheeraz next instead of Lara is yet another example.

Anyhow, the crux of the argument boils down to this, when Crawford held one belt at Top Rank and all the others were owned by PBC fighters, how come he never fought them until he LEFT Bob Arum? Let me guess...you're going to put the blame on Al Haymon's shoulders right? OK if that's the case, how come Crawford QUICKLY agreed terms with them after leaving Top Rank? That in itself DISPROVES your entire claim about PBC plus Tank is now in the exact same boat as Crawford except all the titleholders are/were with Top Rank so he's stuck!

Finally, it's funny how you claim I only became a boxing fan after the Saudi takeover yet my joining date was in 2015 whereas yours was in 2021 which is roughly when they entered the sport...ahahaha!

[BirdSong]

ITank is now in the exact same boat as Crawford except all the titleholders are/were with Top Rank so he's stuck!

l:

its just so unfair a talent like tank once in a gen guy and the other side of the street is just holding him backkkk lol

[PRINCEKOOL]

Gervonta Davis has the power and offensive skills, to hurt and deck most of those fighters 'But I don't think he is a complete fighter, anywhere near the level of even Miguel Cotto'.

The highest level fighters Gervonta Tank Davis could get wins against are, Ricky Hatton, Zab Judah, Arturo Gatti 'I would only make Davis a favourite against Gatti. Just imagine? If all of those fighters were at their absolute peak and competing NOW in present time'.

In such as hypothetical scenario, would the perception of Gervonta Tank Davis be the same? Or would he just be deemed as a solid World Champion, who is very beatable? Gervonta Tank Davis in reality, has never beaten any Elite level fighters. Davis has no truly great wins on his resume. None'.

Those three fighters I have just mentioned up above, Ricky Hatton, Zab Judah and Arturo Gatti 'They all have achieved greater wins on their resume, and overall fought at a higher level skill for skill than Gervonta Tank Davis. Win or lose, if a fighter is competing at an extremely high level? Then in my opinion this adds to their resume, and solidifies to their boxing ability'.

Note: Ricky Hatton was only beaten twice in his career, and during his fight vs Floyd Mayweather Junior 'Hatton showed how good he was. Ricky Hatton was in that fight, right up until the stoppage. Hatton was by no means being completely dominated, and his style was clearly forcing Mayweather to go through all of his gears'.

Now? I don't think Gervonta Tank Davis would be able to push Floyd Mayweather Junior at any point of his career 'To that same extent. Gervonta Tank Davis does not have the endurance, punch combination ability, movement, or overall aggression of a peak Ricky Hatton. Skill for skill Tank Davis is a solid fighter, but his pure technical ability is nothing that sophisticated'.

Gervonta Tank Davis has won most of his highest level fights, with his timing and accuracy 'Davis drops rounds, and can definitively be out boxed by the right level of fighter'.

I don't think his abilities have been tested to a very high level 'Ultimately that is how we rate fighters. How their performances are against other great fighters. Ryan Garcia is not a proven World level fighter, and even that version of Garcia? Was not optimally prepared due to all the catch weight, and rehydration clause requirements'.

To conclude: Gervonta Tank Davis has proven that he is a World level fighter 'But in my opinion, he has not entered into elite level on pure merit. For Davis to achieve such a rating, he would of had to of beaten fighters such as Devin Haney, Vasily Lomachenko his nearest competition at the apex of the division. Great Champions historically have never elevate themselves to Elite level, by beating regular level contenders. At some point all the past great Champions in all divisions, have completed against other great fighters'.

So, overall Gervonta Tank Davis would be a threat up against most past great 130 to 140 pound fighters 'But I highly doubt his presents within the division, would have them all shook. Davis has never beaten any great fighters, and most of his wins are just regular defenses. Against the calibre of fighters that would of been routine title defenses for most past great World Champions' etc.