Comments Thread For: Shakur Stevenson says 'young black guys' are held to a different standard when it comes to entertaining in the ring

[LarryMerchant'sBottle]

Respectfully, that was a pretty vague and light-on-specifics answer. I still don't know what you mean, specifically. Most fighters, across the world, come from humble backgrounds. Ask most any fighter from Mexico, Venezuela, Kazahkstan, Phillipines, etc how hard their lives have been. Most of those guys are objectively poor, and, having been born in countries with little opportunity to advance, they have few options apart from fighting to rise out of that status. Black Americans may represent a 'relatively poor' demographic in the USA, but there is a big difference between relative poverty and absolute poverty, which is what most fighters from 3rd world countries contend with. Black Americans, relatively speaking, are among the more privileged groups in the world, thanks to the social safety net afforded to them by this country's ever-expanding welfare state. Ask your average Uzbeki fighter if he grew up with an iPhone, PS5 and Netflix. If black Americans suffer through poverty in 2024 it is primarily attributable to culture, values and behavior that simply do not predict economic success and viability. This is a complex topic to unpack, but its hardly debatable at this stage.

This is a very insightful post. I learned many many years ago that in the good ole U.S. of A., one can be born poor, but end up wealthy. There are many countries where that isn't so. Although not everyone has the same opportunities here in the U.S., the opportunities that do exist for all, are not available for others in other parts of the world.

[Pac=Duran]

Fraud American fighters have been found out and are now crying about it lol

Imagine if American fighters were crying in the UFC because they got criticism. They'd be out the door quick.

[Lefty0616]

I should clarify a few things. I do think Shakur is talented, I just believe that he has to face better competition to see how well he can maintain his approach. But I think this is in line with most young fighters. I also think Shakur's approach, like so many other younger guys who have not developed fully yet, does not consider how weight gain will affect performance. That is not a critiscism so much as an observation... Can we ever know how we will fight when we change physically? rhetorical question. The assumption always seems to be that power will increase. and let one fight up... Sometimes this is true, sometimes not.

Herring and Valdez are his scalps... And we can agree to disagree that this competition establishes him. Things like titles and losses tend to be relative, while fighting Haney, Tank, teo, or Loma, is absolute. I am not blaming Shakur here for not making those fights... But things are what they are.

My point is not to denigrate Shakur simply to state that assuming we can tether the likes of Arum and get some fights made... We will ultimately see how Shakur does against an elite boxer puncher, or a fellow young lion. You are right that he has a few scalps but his resume lacks even compared to Tank... much less Haney. Not saying it is his fault either...

Tank has been a pro much longer. He better have the better resume.

Haney's resume is bloated. All he really has is Loma. And we really don't know what Loma has left in the tank.

Haney also has a faded Linares (who hurt him), a journey man in Kambosos, and an overrated Prograis on his resume. Although Ryan Garcia cheated, he exposed Haney as being a boxer who can't take power punches at the elite level.

Haney doesn't have the power folks have imagined him to have - his knockouts all come vs journey men from Mexico who have sub par records.

Boxers have been avoiding Shakur. Eventually some of the elite will have to face him...this will cause his stock to rise.

Shakur beats Haney in an entertaining fight, btw.

The only person who I believe can beat him, and it's not totally a given, is Tank.

And Tank is the real deal. Shakur is impressive. I'm almost positive that he'll prove this over time...

[Verus]

Compared to other countries, people in America have the same opportunity as any other American.
Look at the Vietnamese. They came to America with nothing, couldn't even speak English.
Of course, the discrimination they experienced had no equal.
Look at them now and their kids. They're doctors, engineers, business owners, etc.

Part of this can be explained by the percentage of single-parent households among various ethnic and racial groups. The Annie E. Casey Foundation reports that the majority of Black children in this country (63%) are reared by a single-parent. This compares to 16% for Asian American children.

[Verus]

Respectfully, that was a pretty vague and light-on-specifics answer. I still don't know what you mean, specifically. Most fighters, across the world, come from humble backgrounds. Ask most any fighter from Mexico, Venezuela, Kazahkstan, Phillipines, etc how hard their lives have been. Most of those guys are objectively poor, and, having been born in countries with little opportunity to advance, they have few options apart from fighting to rise out of that status. Black Americans may represent a 'relatively poor' demographic in the USA, but there is a big difference between relative poverty and absolute poverty, which is what most fighters from 3rd world countries contend with. Black Americans, relatively speaking, are among the more privileged groups in the world, thanks to the social safety net afforded to them by this country's ever-expanding welfare state. Ask your average Uzbeki fighter if he grew up with an iPhone, PS5 and Netflix. If black Americans suffer through poverty in 2024 it is primarily attributable to culture, values and behavior that simply do not predict economic success and viability. This is a complex topic to unpack, but its hardly debatable at this stage.

You are right my answer was very light on specifics, and this is not a forum for a complete thesis on this or any other topic. My main point is that American Blacks face many hurdles. Some of these are racial and some are economic. Yes, Blacks in this country have access to more economic resources than the average person in some other countries. Life is complicated.

[billeau2]

Tank has been a pro much longer. He better have the better resume.

Haney's resume is bloated. All he really has is Loma. And we really don't know what Loma has left in the tank.

Haney also has a faded Linares (who hurt him), a journey man in Kambosos, and an overrated Prograis on his resume. Although Ryan Garcia cheated, he exposed Haney as being a boxer who can't take power punches at the elite level.

Haney doesn't have the power folks have imagined him to have - his knockouts all come vs journey men from Mexico who have sub par records.

Boxers have been avoiding Shakur. Eventually some of the elite will have to face him...this will cause his stock to rise.

Shakur beats Haney in an entertaining fight, btw.

The only person who I believe can beat him, and it's not totally a given, is Tank.

And Tank is the real deal. Shakur is impressive. I'm almost positive that he'll prove this over time...

I am not a fan of Haney... I was... My point was not to say he is better than Shakur only that he has fought much better fighters. Prograis and Loma (Loma who he arguably lost to) are really good scalps. Garcia and Kambosos also... I actually agree with you that Shakur can beat Haney however I think you are "explaining away" Haney's resume when it is obviously something Shakur needs to work on. Notice I do not consider whether Haney "won" or lost... Rather it is the experience one gains that is important.

I never said Haney has power... On the contrary! Haney has a legitimate problem here... He is getting bigger and not hitting harder! The Ryan fight was very revealing...

Unfortunately it does not matter that Shakur, Bakole, etc are avoided... William James famously said: "Whether the grill is fired up, or the pig bin catches on fire in the barn... roast pork is roast pork..." The reasons matter little, the fact is these young guys like Shakur, have to make fights happen... I hate the Paul Brothers but they have made a blue print for self promotion and these fighters have to follow it, kick the promoters to the curb! Get on social media like Ryan! Get people interested! Otherwise these guys will pass without ever having fought anyone... Count Dante sold comic book adds and walked a bull down State street in Chicago when i was a kid. Sold his silly booklets about martial arts by the bushel though! He actually was a legit martial artist lol but nobody cared... They wanted Count Dante, the fighter of death matches! and that is what they got! (No he never fought death matches).

As far as Tank? I am not going to speculate but if I had to bet the house I believe he would beat Shakur. Shakur imo needs to fight a real killa puncher to improve... I do not think he is ready for Tank. Garcia would be a great fight for him imo.

[dannnnn]

Respectfully, that was a pretty vague and light-on-specifics answer. I still don't know what you mean, specifically. Most fighters, across the world, come from humble backgrounds. Ask most any fighter from Mexico, Venezuela, Kazahkstan, Phillipines, etc how hard their lives have been. Most of those guys are objectively poor, and, having been born in countries with little opportunity to advance, they have few options apart from fighting to rise out of that status. Black Americans may represent a 'relatively poor' demographic in the USA, but there is a big difference between relative poverty and absolute poverty, which is what most fighters from 3rd world countries contend with. Black Americans, relatively speaking, are among the more privileged groups in the world, thanks to the social safety net afforded to them by this country's ever-expanding welfare state. Ask your average Uzbeki fighter if he grew up with an iPhone, PS5 and Netflix. If black Americans suffer through poverty in 2024 it is primarily attributable to culture, values and behavior that simply do not predict economic success and viability. This is a complex topic to unpack, but its hardly debatable at this stage.

Really good post.

[The D3vil]

I can agree with you on Usyk, he is a damn good fighter but boring most of the time.

Loma....no. Loma is on another level in terms of footwork and fighting in the pocket. He trades and will take one to give one if needed. He has also knocked a bunch of guys out and made very good fighters quit to stop the punishment. Prime Loma was exciting to watch. Shakur is alot more basic, but he has great skill at the basics. He is scared to get dropped and fights to not get dropped now. He was never a killer, but he used to be somewhat entertaining.

I find the "black guy is being picked on" thing to be funny. No one likes boring white fighters. Shakur is fighting more like a more talented Malignaggi at this point. And Paulie was awful to watch. Also Usyk is fighting at HW where there is always the chance of a KO, that in itself makes his fights a bit more interesting. But he is pretty boring.

Black dudes rule sports. My two best ever are SRR and RJJ. How in the hell are we in a place where we can still say that a guy who fights in a boring style is being singled out because he is black? Makes zero sense.

No one likes defensive fighters. Black, white, hispanic, asian, midget, beer bellied tough men. It is possible to have great defense and still F people up. Watch old RJJ film.

People have different expectations of different people.

People expect certain things from Black American fighters, Mexican fighters, Cuban fighters, etc. . .

It just is what it is.

I remember back in the day when people like Fernando Vargas were saying that Oscar De La Hoya wasn't a "real Mexican" fighter.

It's about expectations.

[TMLT87]

Nobody calls Tank boring. Nobody called Wilder boring.

[SUBZER0ED]

If Shakur fought like this there would be no criticism. The difference between them is night and day (not a euphemism for skin colour).

Thanks for that reminder of how Bivol handily out-worked Canelo. That was textbook stuff! Shakur only fights like that in infrequent short spurts and doesn't take nearly as many chances, despite having superior speed.