Teddy says Pernell is higher than Manny on the All Time list...

[boojee]

That's bs.

Pacquiao = Ali (at the very least)

[Bhopreign]

Pea easily, Pea didnt have a close fight with Chavez, wouldnt have lost to the guys Manny lost to.

[BennyST]

Pea had fought some good fighters in their primes, Pac not as much.

Pac has the better names on resume though.

resume wise Pacquiao has a much better resume, it's not even debatable imo.

not saying who would win, just based on resumes.

Chavez, Ramirez, De La Hoya, Trinidad, Nelson, McGirt, etc.

Umm...it is highly debatable.

I am really surprised by some of these answers. I completely agree with Scott also. It's not just slightly debatable with the edge to Pac or anything either. I actually think Whitakers resume is still better, apart from him fighting the same level of fighters who also happened to be in their primes.

The best fighters Pac has faced are Marquez, Barrera, Morales and Oscar. Whitaker faced the best version of Oscar, one who was not even slightly comparable to the fighter Pac faced, and that is no excuse or bias, just plain fact. Pac faced the worst version, Whitaker the best. Go watch the fights.

Barrera, Morales and Marquez. Julio Cesar Chavez, Azumah Nelson and ... well, I was trying to match them up a little but Trinidad is not even remotely similar to Marquez. Chavez and Nelson are better than Barrera, Morales and Marquez. Trinidad is arguable.

Then you have the plethora of 'that era' of champs both guys faced. Whitaker faced more (only just by one or two more champs at 13 from memory) and often very fine fighters just as Pac did. In fact the more I think about this the more I laugh out loud at anyone thinking it's not even debatable. I think it's highly debatable if Pac has a resume as good as Whitakers.

I've always been a stickler for a guy who rules one division for some time also. I think it's nearly a prerequisite for true ATGreatness. They face all the those slightly less known champs who are quite often better then the big names. Think about this: Imagine if Pac cleaned out 130...He could have gone through Barrera, Morales, Marquez and then some other guys like Guzman, who is less known but probably the hardest to beat of the lot. This though is off topic and a general 'what if'.

If anyone can explain why this isn't debatable I would seriously love to hear the reasoning. Maybe it's memory failure, or just never having seen Whitakers fights or any idea who he actually fought. I don't know. "Not even debatable" though? You've got to be kidding me.

I know you would have wmute and I would love to hear why you think he might have the better names. I realise that you're not saying that this isn't debatable though mate.

[BennyST]

i thought we are talking about who is HIGHER on the ATG list. I mean Pea might beat Pacquiao in a fight because he would run the whole time, but resume and accomplishment WISE, Pacquiao all day. It is close, but not as close as everyone is saying.

Look, Duran is above Hagler on most ATG list, and Hagler beat him.
De La Hoya is above Trinidad on most ATG list, and Trinidad beat him (even tho it was a ROBBERY)
Chavez lost to De La Hoya and is above on most ATG list. The list goes on and on.

My point is made.

Your point is made and it is wrong.

[BennyST]

Just like De La HOya and Trinidad beat him. Thats how.

Seriously, do you think the Oscar that Whitaker fought, and at Whitakers age and the stage of his career he was at, that Pac would have any chance?

Actually, no I'll rephrase that. Do you think the best Oscar at welterweight (the one that Whitaker fought) would beat the Pac that did just beat today's Oscar?

[Run]

Whitaker.

2 time Gold Medalist, 4 Weight division Champ, Much Much more skilled.



| |

[Run]

Whitaker is the greatest single defensive fighter of all time.

Manny Pacquiao is the all time......Um.............???????



| |

[BennyST]

Pernell Whitaker
JCC
JLR
Azumah Nelson
JCV
DLH (Prime)
Roger Mayweather
McGirt

Whitaker has the better resume

negative!!!!!!!!!!!

Pacquiao have the better resume.

Sasakul
Ledwaba
Morales x2
JMM x1 and a draw
Barrera X2
DLH
Hatton
Larios
Solis

yea but he got his ass kicked against Trinidad and he doesn't have the win against DLH.

Pacquiao avenged his one loss against Morales by KO 2 times. Getting knocked out when you are 16 shouldn't count. Even if it does though..

Barrera 2x
Morales 3x
Marquez 2x
DLH
Hatton
Ledwaba
Solis
Valesquez
Larios
Sasakul
Sanchez

the sad thing is I can even name more worthy oponents...even Diaz would normally show up on a fighter's resume, but Pacquiao has so many good names on his list that can take his place.

Ok, this forum has officially lost the ****ing plot!

If either of you guys can name one great fighter that Azumah Nelson beat or his greatest win I would be seriously surprised. You guys have no clue about what you are talking about.

Dominicano puts names like Vasquez, Chavez, Nelson, Ramirez, Mayweather, McGirt etc etc and you put down Solis as one of Pac's good names to compare to them?

Holy ****e! This place has gone nuts. Completely effing batty!

Pac only has one loss now? So, Trinidad beats Whitaker up when he was a coked up, old junkie, piece of crap boxer well past against an ATG undefeated welterweight, twice his size, in his prime, but Pac's two KO losses don't count? Man, this ****e is great.

How about you put it this way. Vasquez is one of the greats at 154. Ramirez is one of the greats at LW, Chavez is one of the greats, Nelson ATG, but guys like Haugen, Hurtado etc haven't even been named as good opponents for Whitaker and yet they were easily as good as guys like Ledwaba (damn it, Haugen wasn't just as good as Ledwaba he was way better!) and a ****e load better than Solis. Solis isn't anyone at all!

I'm flat out stunned.

At least it's given me a good laugh after work. Even if it is daft.

[El Dominicano]

Ok, this forum has officially lost the ****ing plot!

If either of you guys can name one great fighter that Azumah Nelson beat or his greatest win I would be seriously surprised. You guys have no clue about what you are talking about.

Dominicano puts names like Vasquez, Chavez, Nelson, Ramirez, Mayweather, McGirt etc etc and you put down Solis as one of Pac's good names?

Holy ****e! This place has gone nuts. Completely effing batty!

Pac only has one loss now? So, Trinidad beats Whitaker up when he was a coked up, old junkie, piece of crap boxer well past against an ATG undefeated welterweight, twice his size, in his prime, but Pac's two KO losses don't count? Man, this ****e is great.

How about you put it this way. Vasquez is one of the greats at 154. Ramirez is one of the greats at LW, Chavez is one of the greats, Nelson ATG, but guys like Haugen, Hurtado etc haven't even been named as good opponents for Whitaker and yet they were easily as good as guys like Ledwaba and a ****e load better than Solis. Solis isn't anyone at all!

I'm flat out stunned.

At least it's given me a good laugh after work. Even if it is daft.

Tell em, JCV (This guy was no joke), JLR and McGirt deserve a mention. I understand that Pacquiao was a huge underdog going into the DLH fight, but I'm serious when I say, I can't give him much credit for that win.

Whitaker to me was undefeated going into the Tito fight. Some may disagree but I strongly believe he was, Pacquiao has a great resume and could possibly surpass Whitaker, but I won't be surprised if Pacquiao doesn't win another fight, especially when you got Cotto, SSM and Mayweather in your radar

[FasTHarD]

Pacman may surpass Pernell soon.