Valero could easily have been p4p#1

[S.G.]

Case and point...a fading Morales beat Pacquiao much more clearly than Marquez(assuming you had him winning either Pacquiao fight), and in Marquez's own style no less!
yet Pacquiao is p4p #1, and Marquez is p4p #2...and as far as I know, the highest Morales ever got on the p4p lists was #7. does that make sense? nope.

was at different times to be fair

can't remember exactly, but (i think) Morales was higher than Pacquiao and Marquez after that win, but below the likes of Barrera (coming off a win over Morales himself), Winky Wright, Floyd Mayweather... umm... and some others. Taylor I guess. He beat B-Hop around them times

[nozorok]

whattt i never heard about this....

Towards the end he almost decapitates Antillon. Without the headgear and big gloves he would have sent him into next week. He's holding back most of the time in sparring otherwise trainers wouldn't let their fighters in with him and never more than a 3 rounds at a time. He's also schooled Morales in sparring and has had legendary gym wars with many southern california boxers.

[Pullcounter]

I actually sort of agree with you. I dont hold Valero THAT high in my opinion...he has some clear flaws, although he is getting better.

What people need to realise is that P4P lists arent actually the list of the best fighters in the world. Its almost a popularity contest. Can the overall best fighter be the P4P #1? absolutely. but just because youre #1 or ranked doesnt necessarily mean that youre better than everyone else in boxing.

LOL.. how can p4p be a popularity contest when floyd was pretty much universally hated???

gatti is by far one of the more popular boxers and yet he never even broke the p4p top 10 list.

how did Vasquez get on the p4p list? it sure isn't his popularity. he paid for his position with blood, guts and skills.

the only boxers on p4p lists because of their popularity are guys like ortiz who is still a prospect and cotto who lost big to margo and beat a scrub in jennings.

Case and point...a fading Morales beat Pacquiao much more clearly than Marquez(assuming you had him winning either Pacquiao fight), and in Marquez's own style no less!
yet Pacquiao is p4p #1, and Marquez is p4p #2...and as far as I know, the highest Morales ever got on the p4p lists was #7. does that make sense? nope.

no way!!! morales was as high as p4p #3.

so p4p lists are not really the best fighters in boxing. its more of a list of whos done the most recently+how good they looked recently+popularity

lol... finally you tell the truth and came up with 3 criteria of getting on p4p lists. i salute you

whattt i never heard about this....

i agree. give us a link or it never happened

[Pullcounter]

Towards the end he almost decapitates Antillon. Without the headgear and big gloves he would have sent him into next week. He's holding back most of the time in sparring otherwise trainers wouldn't let their fighters in with him and never more than a 3 rounds at a time. He's also schooled Morales in sparring and has had legendary gym wars with many southern california boxers.

both guys look good in here... antillon is getting in some good shots himself because valero has no head movement.

regardless, roach says pac is playing w/ antillon in sparring right now... so imho its a wash

[Pacmanjay]

It's really disturbing in boxing how certain fighters are not protected, but even worse, get special privileges to face certain fighters based on who is their promoter or trainer. It was mentioned by HBO, that Guzman hired Floyd Mayweather Sr. as his trainer, not only because he liked his ability, but because it would allow him the chance to fight better competition. We all know Don King is the scum of the earth and will rob you of all your money... So why do fighters keep using him as their promoter? It's simple, that's how you get any fights!

Before I get to my point, here are some interesting facts!

After Morales beat Pacquaio, he lost to Raheem very badly by an lopsided decision. He lost so badly to Raheem that HBO thought Morales should retire as he clearly appeared washed up. Of course, Arum screamed at the camera saying "of course the rematch will happen", and it did. The rematch went ahead anyway and Pacquiao won and was suddenly in the p4p top 3. Did anyone forget Raheem just dominated Morales? I guess not... Morales then went on to fight Diaz, and lost yet again.

We all know Valero was the sparring partner for Morales in his first fight against Pacquiao, and from the footage I've seen, it appeared as if Valero was actually beating Morales in several sessions. This is the same Morales that beat Pacquiao without getting a scratch in return, in their first fight.

Now, let me get to my point. I'm absolutely sure that Valero would have beaten that version of Morales who lost to Raheem, Pacquiao, and David Diaz. I'm absolutely sure that Valero would have beaten David Diaz at 135. I would even favor Valero against Marquez, who seems to have a chin problem, because he would be in the danger zone every minute of all 12 rounds against the fighter who they say hits harder than Margarito. (as claimed by sparring partners of Margarito who have also sparred with Valero)

Barrera also used Valero as his sparring partner. Prior to his rematch with Pacquiao, he was asked who can beat Pacquiao. Barrera replied, "I'm positive Valero would beat Pacquiao". My question is, what the hell is Barrera fighting him for then? I'm sure the public would much rather have seen Valero vs Pacquiao instead of a worthless rematch against an washed up fighter.

Now, we all know that Valero dominated Oscar de la Hoya in sparring, which is why he was fired and thrown out of the Big Bear training camp. Certain people in Oscar's camp have said Valero was moving in and out, and lightin' up Oscar's face, which made Oscar quit in the 8th round. (sound familiar?) This is why Valero boldly predicted Pacquiao to easily knockout Oscar, because he said Oscar was not really training like the media claimed, and that he was severely out of shape to be in any fight.

I know it's a BIG if, but IF Valero would have gotten the opportunity to face the mentioned fighters in the ring, I'm confident he would have beaten them all, with the only possible loss being to Marquez... who the majority of boxing analysis thought beat Pacquiao anyway.

Assuming Valero did accomplish those feats, would you have placed him as p4p1 since Floyd has retired? It's a shame there are other fighters out there who have the skills to accomplish the same feats as the "flavor of the year stars", but never get the opportunity. This is one of the reasons I prefer MMA match-ups, because you really know the best are actually fighting eachother.

ASSUMING Valero can/would/could beat those fighters and actually doing them are two different things. And where were you 3-4 years ago to cheer Valero? That's right, either you (and most Valero cheerleaders) didn't even know who Valero was back then and he was even more of up and comer back then. So isn't it ****** to complain that Valero could/should/would have fought and beat those fighters when he clearly wasn't in position to fight ANY of them at that point?

[Maestro USA]

both guys look good in here... antillon is getting in some good shots himself because valero has no head movement.

regardless, roach says pac is playing w/ antillon in sparring right now... so imho its a wash

Valero's style is to invite you in on a false sense of seeing some "opening" with his "no head movement", and as soon as you come in to take advantage of it, you're legs are gone and you're being counted out.

Fact is, Antillion gave Pacquiao a tough of a sparring session. Reports from people who have seen the session first hand say the first couple rounds were back and forth, no clear winner, with Pacquiao actually falling down. Later, Antillion joked and asked about his $1,000 bonus for knocking Pacquiao down.

[Komander]

Maestro I agree with everything you said. Great Post.

[talip bin osman]

It's really disturbing in boxing how certain fighters are not protected, but even worse, get special privileges to face certain fighters based on who is their promoter or trainer. It was mentioned by HBO, that Guzman hired Floyd Mayweather Sr. as his trainer, not only because he liked his ability, but because it would allow him the chance to fight better competition. We all know Don King is the scum of the earth and will rob you of all your money... So why do fighters keep using him as their promoter? It's simple, that's how you get any fights!

Before I get to my point, here are some interesting facts!

After Morales beat Pacquaio, he lost to Raheem very badly by an lopsided decision. He lost so badly to Raheem that HBO thought Morales should retire as he clearly appeared washed up. Of course, Arum screamed at the camera saying "of course the rematch will happen", and it did. The rematch went ahead anyway and Pacquiao won and was suddenly in the p4p top 3. Did anyone forget Raheem just dominated Morales? I guess not... Morales then went on to fight Diaz, and lost yet again.

We all know Valero was the sparring partner for Morales in his first fight against Pacquiao, and from the footage I've seen, it appeared as if Valero was actually beating Morales in several sessions. This is the same Morales that beat Pacquiao without getting a scratch in return, in their first fight.

Now, let me get to my point. I'm absolutely sure that Valero would have beaten that version of Morales who lost to Raheem, Pacquiao, and David Diaz. I'm absolutely sure that Valero would have beaten David Diaz at 135. I would even favor Valero against Marquez, who seems to have a chin problem, because he would be in the danger zone every minute of all 12 rounds against the fighter who they say hits harder than Margarito. (as claimed by sparring partners of Margarito who have also sparred with Valero)

Barrera also used Valero as his sparring partner. Prior to his rematch with Pacquiao, he was asked who can beat Pacquiao. Barrera replied, "I'm positive Valero would beat Pacquiao". My question is, what the hell is Barrera fighting him for then? I'm sure the public would much rather have seen Valero vs Pacquiao instead of a worthless rematch against an washed up fighter.

Now, we all know that Valero dominated Oscar de la Hoya in sparring, which is why he was fired and thrown out of the Big Bear training camp. Certain people in Oscar's camp have said Valero was moving in and out, and lightin' up Oscar's face, which made Oscar quit in the 8th round. (sound familiar?) This is why Valero boldly predicted Pacquiao to easily knockout Oscar, because he said Oscar was not really training like the media claimed, and that he was severely out of shape to be in any fight.

I know it's a BIG if, but IF Valero would have gotten the opportunity to face the mentioned fighters in the ring, I'm confident he would have beaten them all, with the only possible loss being to Marquez... who the majority of boxing analysis thought beat Pacquiao anyway.

Assuming Valero did accomplish those feats, would you have placed him as p4p1 since Floyd has retired? It's a shame there are other fighters out there who have the skills to accomplish the same feats as the "flavor of the year stars", but never get the opportunity. This is one of the reasons I prefer MMA match-ups, because you really know the best are actually fighting eachother.

u could really offer ur argument anytime u want... but essentially, it is really nothing but one of those "coulda, woulda, but didnt happen" things in boxing...

[Ch@mpBox@PR]

Hell no.

To be P4P number one either you have to entirely dominated your division or beat top fighters in multiple divisions.

VCalero have a long way to be number 1 P4P

[Maestro USA]

styles make fights and raheem was a bad style match up for morales. I don't remember anyone calling on morales to retire, but everybody who fights pac ain't the same afterward.

You need to watch the fight. HBO in the interview hinted the rematch shouldn't happen. They even suggested Paquiao to duck Raheem, and move back down in weight and knockout more featherweights. Styles make fights, but why didn't Raheem at least make the p4p top 10? Afterall, he just dominated the man who just beat Pacquiao.

why did morales get the rematch? because pac and morales had a grudge match going plain and simple.

Ok, sure, so why didn't Pacquiao fight Raheem at least, instead of fighting the shot Morales a third time, LOL

this is the first time i ever heard of valero being morales's traing partner. footage or source please or it didn't happen.

How about some REP's

Here ya go man!

what do you base this on? sparring matches? valero's record based off destroying bums? let's be serious here... valero ain't done ****.

25 Wins / 25 KO's. He's done a lot more than Solis who earned a shot at Pacquiao somehow...

is he exciting? yes. does he have power? sure. do we wanna see more of him? ok. is he gonna wipe the floor with elite fighers who have proven themselves? ***** please!!!

He already has!

this is the first time i ever heard of valero as mab's sparring partner. footage or source or it never happened.

Here's a quote from an article written at an online site, search the quote if you want the link.

"At the post fight press conference for Marco Antonio Barrera – Manny Pacquiao, Barrera maintained a level of dignity throughout the proceedings but couldn’t resist getting in a dig at his two time conqueror when he invited WBA super featherweight champion Edwin Valero onto the dais. When asked by a reporter if he thought anyone could beat Pacquiao, Barrera gestured over his shoulder and said loudly, “Valero."

There is also pride at stake. Again, Pacquiao didn’t take kindly to Barrera’s remarks. It’s also interesting to not that both Morales and Barrera used Valero as a sparing partner – Morales before his first fight with Pacquiao and Barrera for their rematch."

Here is Pacquiao's response, which he NEVER fulfilled, because the fight never happened.

“I felt challenged by Barrera’s statement that Valero can beat me. So I’ve decided to stay here for the moment and take the challenge,” Pacquiao said.

dude... ivan calderon was dominating DLH... need I say more?

Exactly, we all know that wasn't the real Oscar de la Hoya, yet Pacquiao is being compared to Henry Armstrong for being a dead man. HBO is desperate these days because of MMA and they badly need some stories to sell, but yikes, that's embarrassing for the sport!