Sugar Ray Robinson v Charles Burley

[number6]

I've read a book recently about contenders who never got there shot at the big time.One of the names that comes up is Charles Burley.It suggests that he was avoided by Sugar Ray Robinson.
Just wondering what the general veiw is on this and if they would have met what would be the likely outcome.I've seen a few Robinson fights but cant say much of Burley,apart from what i've read.

[butterfly1964]

I've read a book recently about contenders who never got there shot at the big time.One of the names that comes up is Charles Burley.It suggests that he was avoided by Sugar Ray Robinson.
Just wondering what the general veiw is on this and if they would have met what would be the likely outcome.I've seen a few Robinson fights but cant say much of Burley,apart from what i've read.

Burley has a good chance to win.

[hayZ]

robinson would have won, depends what year this was in, but in my opinion robinson would win it.

[La_Vibora]

robinson would have won, depends what year this was in, but in my opinion robinson would win it.

How could you be so sure about that when there is basically only one video of Charley Burley out there, which was his rematch against Oakland Billy Smith? I think watching one fight of him is too little to really guess about how a match with Ray Robinson would have went. Although, Ray did once tell his manager that "I am too pretty to fight Burley" and did constantly outprice himself in negotiations with him. Burley's biggest problem was that he was too classy and nice of a guy to call a fighter out, if he had done that more then he would have got the big fights, plus they say he was "too technical" so people would have found his style to be boring so he wasn't a big draw. As for a description as to how Burley fought, his former sparring partner AJ "Blackie" Nelson compared him to a more technical Roy Jones without the showboating. Also Eddie Futch said that Burley was the best all around fighter that he ever saw. I wish we could have seen him fight Sugar Ray, Billy Conn, Marcel Cerdan, Jake LaMotta, etc but those guys didn't want to fight him.

[La_Vibora]

I've read a book recently about contenders who never got there shot at the big time.One of the names that comes up is Charles Burley.It suggests that he was avoided by Sugar Ray Robinson.
Just wondering what the general veiw is on this and if they would have met what would be the likely outcome.I've seen a few Robinson fights but cant say much of Burley,apart from what i've read.

BTW, I am guessing the book that you are referring to is "Charley Burley and the Black Murderers Row", I haven't had the chance to read it yet but what was your opinion of it?

[number6]

BTW, I am guessing the book that you are referring to is "Charley Burley and the Black Murderers Row", I haven't had the chance to read it yet but what was your opinion of it?

The book that i read was called 'They could've been contenders' by Jim McNeill.It doesn't just focus on Burley,it gives a write up on various fighters who didnt get their big shot for various reasons.

[QueensburyRules]

- -The Burley dilemma comes up a lot, yet what little is known about Burley is key to solving his puzzle.

First he is the proverbial can't draw flies in an era where gates were instrumental in making fights.

2nd, he went thru a blizzard of mgrs, so business wise he was unstable.

Robinson fought the very tricky and technical Kid Gavlin twice, so was Kid ducking him too? Most of Robby's opponents never fought Burley either.

Jus the facts ma'am!

[Willie Pep 229]

- -The Burley dilemma comes up a lot, yet what little is known about Burley is key to solving his puzzle.

First he is the proverbial can't draw flies in an era where gates were instrumental in making fights.

2nd, he went thru a blizzard of mgrs, so business wise he was unstable.

Robinson fought the very tricky and technical Kid Gavlin twice, so was Kid ducking him too? Most of Robby's opponents never fought Burley either.

Jus the facts ma'am!

It was also a time when the game was regional, not national in scope. It was a time when champions where crowned in New York (or at best in the East or Chicago) -- Burley was Pittsburgh fighter who chose to go south (first) to New Orleans and then out to the West Coast.

He fought in the New York area only twice in his (very long) career. Once at St. Nicholas (very early on) and then in '45 when he dropped an important 10 rounder to Holman Williams.

To repeat all the things you said: Terrible draw, contract sold repeatedly, and often found himself as a bridesmaid in the rankings sitting behind SRR or Holman Williams.


He never really got ducked for a title shot, he couldn't rise to the top of the rankings. (Also got burnt by the War Years moratorium on title fights.)

I feel certain on a day-to-day bases he was often avoided. There was little reason for anyone to want to fight him, several big reasons to avoid him.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -The Burley dilemma comes up a lot, yet what little is known about Burley is key to solving his puzzle.

First he is the proverbial can't draw flies in an era where gates were instrumental in making fights.

2nd, he went thru a blizzard of mgrs, so business wise he was unstable.

Robinson fought the very tricky and technical Kid Gavlin twice, so was Kid ducking him too? Most of Robby's opponents never fought Burley either.

Jus the facts ma'am!

LMAO!


Dammit, you put me in stitches. My ribs are broken. I can't stop laughing.

You really just compared Burley to Gavilan? I can't think of two fighters more different.

Ray did NOT attempt to avenge his sole amateur loss to Graham, who WAS like Burley. And Graham certainly did have a following.


Look you're not wrong, Burley wasn't thrilling and his career was disastrously mismanaged (while it's true Armstrong wanted nothing to do with Burley, he really wanted nothing do with ANYONE with a pulse; and Zivic's mgmt did seem to neatly shelve Burley so Fritizy could get his shot). That doesn't change the fact that Ray definitely pursued the path of least resistance. Gavilan, for example, was easy for Ray.

I would pick Ray to beat Graham and Burley. Burley struggled with Williams' handspeed, and he lacked Ray's size and power. Burley also seems prone to being bullied, which Ray did quite well.

I doubt Burley is an easy fight. Maxim, Turpin and the Filipino weren't. But it's not a fight I'd expect Ray to lose.

Really, Burley is another one of these internet-age folk heroes who's legacy doesn't hold up well under scrutiny.

[billeau2]

Burley was such a great fighter that in very little footage one can see how great he was. I adore the guy. He wasted no energy, and would rather lose a fight for lack of activity after mastering an opponent than fight ******ly for the win...

My very first karate tourney I caught my opponent with a perfectly placed spinning hook kick. I pulled it just before it took his jaw to a two places... I could not take the fight seriously after that...I lost that fight on points that never touched me and probably would never have of they werent pulled... I get Burley's mind set. The guy was an artist, a master of the craft. In the bit of footage he left us there is much to look at and understand...

With that said? I do not think he beats Ray Robinson, not by a longshot. Ray had too many weapons and too many natural gifts. As great as Burley was, it would be like a knife fighter coming to a gun fight and the opponent was well armed.

Robinson might have felt Charley would make him look ******. Could have, for a while at least...not the same as beating Ray Robinson though.