Greatest fighters to never win a title

[joseph5620]

I'm not sure if he's been mentioned but I would include Howard Davis Jr and also Tyrone Everett.

[DeeMoney]

The dude's clearly an idiot. But your comment regarding Langford has me scratching my head. He fought virtually his entire career at Heavyweight; his peak years and best performances occurred in that division.

I'm basing it on the modern standard for a heavyweight (200+ pounds).

Langford fought a lot of heavyweights of the time, but I don't think he himself weighed over 200 for a fight until he was 30. The first decade of his career, where I think his best version was, saw him fighting mostly in the 170s & 180s.

The best version of Tua outweighs the best version of Langford by 60-70 pounds. Weight aint everything, but it definitely is something.

[The Old LefHook]

Art Hafey comes to mind. What a complexion! And some say complexion is a lost art in boxing. Art proved them wrong!

[Rusty Tromboni]

You're just a bit to dense for me to keep explaining these thing to you. I could provide more links for you to do some homework, but you think your opinion more valuable than people who either saw, fought or studied these fighters in depth. Honestly, I'm tired of wasting my time on your trolling. You're welcome to believe whatever you want. It doesn't affect me no matter how foolish you make yourself look.

Hahahaha! Exposed! Sorry, dude, you play ****** games, you win ****** prizes. All I've asked for is evidence, clearly it doesn't exist if you still can't provide it.

[Rusty Tromboni]

I'm basing it on the modern standard for a heavyweight (200+ pounds).

Langford fought a lot of heavyweights of the time, but I don't think he himself weighed over 200 for a fight until he was 30. The first decade of his career, where I think his best version was, saw him fighting mostly in the 170s & 180s.

The best version of Tua outweighs the best version of Langford by 60-70 pounds. Weight aint everything, but it definitely is something.

But he was a Heavyweight, none the less.

Quarry was chronically undersized in his biggest fights. Was he not a Heavyweight?

Ali, Foreman, Holmes and Tyson would be dwarfed by Fury, does that mean they're not Heavyweights?

[Rusty Tromboni]

I'm not sure if he's been mentioned but I would include Howard Davis Jr and also Tyrone Everett.

Davis is an interesting suggestion. He was prodigiously talented, but his skills as an amateur didn't transfer as well to the pro ranks. He also lacked heart.

He got his shot, but wasn't up to snuff. And then he fizzled out.

That's the exact opposite of McFarland who was P4P the best the sport of Boxing had seen before the arrival of Harry Greb, and despite fighting for decades against fighters from 3 of the original 8 divisions, never recieved a title shot.

Then you have guys like Graham, who was clearly running fights but getting ****ed over by the judges.

Or Quarry, who was just too small for Heavyweight and too big for Light Heavyweight.

Davis was very skilled, but he really wasn't meant to be a professional fighter.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Good call on Blackburn and Williams.

I would include:

Jimmy Bivins
Billy Graham
Ruben Castillo
Joe Choynsky
George Benton
Jerry Quarry
Lloyd Marshall

Benton actually lost to Joey Archer... another great fighter who could be put on par with Graham and McFarland.

I defy anyone here to tell us that Langford, Burley and Tendler look better on film than Archer. Joey's brother refused to "make friends" as they would say, and people didn't pay to see a guy "not fight". So it's understandable that the judges often slighted him. But it's funny knowing that now, after seeing Floyd go 50-0, Ward "beat" Kovalev and Canelo dethrone Golovkin.

It's nice you mentioned Bivins. Like McGovern in defeating Erne and Driscoll in defeating Attell, his defeat of Lesnevich actually COST him his title shot. Apparently he was also 1st ranked Heavyweight contender during the War. I could be wrong about that. Definitely he was on track to become champ at 175 pounds.

He's definitely not among the best, though, to have failed in securing the championship. His career was built off of fading foes - mostly Billy Conn's sloppy seconds. And his peak was very short-lived.

He deserves to be mentioned, but with the caveat of acknowledgment that he wasn't in league with fighters like McFarland, Archer, Tendler, Langford, Graham...

[DeeMoney]

But he was a Heavyweight, none the less.

Quarry was chronically undersized in his biggest fights. Was he not a Heavyweight?

Ali, Foreman, Holmes and Tyson would be dwarfed by Fury, does that mean they're not Heavyweights?

Once again, by modern standards he, in what i consider his prime, was not a heavyweight.

From 05-12 his weight moved around mostly in the 170s to the 180s. The fighters you mentioned all weighed in over 200 during their best years. Thus, all heavies.

Please note, i never claimed Langford wasnt a heavyweight. Just that his best years were fought at a weight that is on par with Light heavyweight.

Its akin to roy jones jr, he fought at heavyweight, he was an all time great. But i dont consider him an all time great heavyweight. On a relative scale to his prime weight class i think most would consider him better than tua, but the best version of rjj would lose in real life to the best version of tua. Because the best version of tua is a 245 lb modern heavyweight, and the best version of jones is 168 lbs. Even as heavy, jones doesnt beat tua, because he wasnt great at that class

[QueensburyRules]

I poached this from another site. Very nice list.



THE TOP TWELVE
3
Top 12 All-Time Greatest Uncrowned Champions
By Neil Crane · On May 9, 2019
For most of boxing history, world title belts didn’t grow on trees, as they say, and even title shots were a rare and much sought-after commodity. Competition was fiercer back in the day, and to be a top contender was a major accomplishment; fighting for a world title, let alone winning one, was rare and remarkable. Times have changed and now belts of various stripes abound, to the point where few carry much genuine value.


The immortal “Boston Bonecrusher.” Drawing by Damien Burton.

Without a doubt, every boxer on our list of the best to never win a world title would, if they were competing today, have at least a couple of straps to show off. And more than a few here were both unjustly denied title chances, or title wins, which they had otherwise earned. Herewith our ranking of the all-time best uncrowned boxing kings:

12. Jim Driscoll: Despite victories over world champions George Dixon and Abe Attell and highly competitive battles with Freddie Welsh and Owen Moran, Driscoll himself never fought for a world title. That didn’t stop many from regarding “Peerless” Jim, one of the ring’s most clever and elusive maestros, as the greatest boxer who had ever lived.


“Peerless” Jim Driscoll

11. Harry Wills: For a time in the 1920’s, “The Black Panther” was the best heavyweight in the world and there was even talk of a big showdown with official heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey, but it never came to be. Even so, Wills holds wins over a host of top talents including Luis Firpo, “Big” Bill Tate, Kid Norfolk, Sam Langford, Billy Miske, Sam McVea, Battling Siki and Joe Jeannette.


“The Black Panther”

10. Jack Blackburn: The man they called “Chappie” never got the big one, but he faced a long list of all-time greats and has the distinction of having given tough battles to three true legends: Sam Langford, Harry Greb and Joe Gans. Blackburn claimed to have answered the bell more than four hundred times in his long career.


Jack “Chappie” Blackburn

9. Mike Gibbons: The smaller of the two Gibbons brothers, Mike was too good for his own good and thus failed to secure a shot at the middleweight championship despite battling the likes of Jeff Smith, Ted “Kid” Lewis, Packey McFarland, Mike O’Dowd and Harry Greb.


Mike Gibbons (right) putting on an exhibition with brother Tommy.

8. Wesley Ramey: Ramey was a clever boxer and a legit all-time great lightweight with wins over the likes of Eddie Cool, Cocoa Kid, Benny Bass, Tony Canzoneri, Johnny Ja**** and Lew Jenkins. With only eleven knockouts in an amazing 141 career wins, one speculates if his lack of power made him a poor draw and shut him out from championship contention. In any case, that he never got a chance to fight for the title is undeniably an injustice.


At least Ramey got some love from The Ring.

7. Willie Joyce: Tough, smart and with a wicked left jab, Joyce had the bad luck to compete in the same era as some of the best lightweights in boxing history. Even so, he more than held his own when battling such greats as Beau Jack, Chalky Wright, Lew Jenkins and Tippy Larkin. Winning two of four against the immortal Henry Armstrong, and then three of four against Ike Williams, speaks volumes about Joyce’s toughness and talent.


Tough and cagey Willie Joyce.

6. Patrick “Packey” McFarland: A true boxing legend, McFarland boasts an astonishing record of seventy wins against five draws and just a single defeat. He bested such fellow ring luminaries as Mike Gibbons and Owen Moran, not to mention world champions Jack Britton, Tommy Kilbane and Freddie Welsh.


Packey McFarland

5. Holman Williams: One of the greats of the legendary “Murderers’ Row” group, Williams was famously cited by genius trainer Eddie Futch as a pugilist so gifted he would rather watch him shadowbox than see others actually fight. He bested such greats as Archie Moore, Bert Lytell, Charley Burley, Cocoa Kid, Lloyd Marshall, Kid Tunero, Jack Chase and Eddie Booker.


Holman Williams

4. Cocoa Kid: Herbert Lewis Hardwick was an incredibly prolific battler, retiring with a career mark of 178-58-11. Tragically, he never received a chance for a world title in either the welterweight or middleweight divisions, but he did notch wins over such top talents as Johnny Ja****, Young Peter Jackson, Jack Chase, Eddie Booker, Chalky Wright and Holman Williams.


Cocoa Kid

3. Lew Tendler: Had he competed at any other time in boxing history, he would have been a world champ. As it was, Tendler had the misfortune of competing during an absolute “Golden Age” for the 135 pound class. He came closer than anyone else to defeating the great Benny Leonard when “The ****** Wizard” was in his prime, and later he dropped a very close decision to the great “Toy Bulldog,” Mickey Walker, but, as they say, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Still, Tendler, one of boxing’s greatest southpaws, can forever boast victories over the likes of Rocky Kansas, Johnny Dundee, Pinky Mitchell, Frankie Callahan, Oakland Jimmy Duffy and Richie Mitchell.


Lew Tendler

2. Charley Burley: The best of the bunch in the unfairly ostracized “Murderers’ Row” gang, Burley couldn’t get a break or a chance at the middleweight title but all knew how great he was after he amassed a record of 83-12-2 and defeated such top-shelf warriors as Holman Williams, Jimmy Leto, Fritzie Zivic, Jack Chase, Oakland Billy Smith, Jackie Burke, Archie Moore, Bert Lytell and Cocoa Kid.


The legendary Charley Burley

1. Sam Langford: Of all the truly great battlers to never win a world title, “The Boston Bonecrusher” stands supreme. Virtually all of his best opponents — including Harry Wills, “Fireman” Jim Flynn, Joe Jeannette, and many others — hailed him as the most powerful and vicious puncher they had ever faced. In his later years heavyweight champion Jack Dempsey admitted he avoided giving Langford a title shot and told sportswriter Jimmy Cannon, “Sam probably would have knocked me out.”


The great Sam Langford. Painting by Damien Burton

Early in his career, Sam faced two world champions, but when he defeated Joe Gans the lightweight title was not at stake, and when he battled the original Joe Walcott for the welterweight crown, the match was declared a draw, even though first-hand accounts indicate most present thought Langford the winner. “The Boston Terror” was so capable a ring man that towards the end of his long and prolific career he was scoring knockouts when almost completely blind. Bottom line: Sam Langford is forever one of the greatest boxers who has ever lived, pound-for-pound, and the all-time best to never strap on a world championship belt.

Honorable Mentions: Jimmy Bivins, Kid Norfolk, Lloyd Marshall, Young Peter Jackson, Joe Jeannette, Eddie Booker, Dave Shade, Billy Petrolle, Eddie Shea, Young Stribling, Tommy Gibbons, Black Bill, Sam McVea, Bennie Briscoe, Bert Lytell, Jimmy Leto, Peter Jackson, Kid Azteca, George Benton, Jack Chase, Yaqui Lopez, Lou Bogash, Billy Graham, Ruben Navarro, Dave Sands, Joe Choynski, Jimmy Young, Baby Arizmendi, Teddy Yarosz, Georgie Abrams, Jock McAvoy, Tyrone Everett, Vilomar Fernandez, Pedro Montanez, Armando Muniz, Carl Tremaine, Owen Moran, Ruben Castillo, Wee Willie Davies, Al Gainer, Leo Houck, Freddie Dawson.

- -Lotta milquetoast sepia lense mush.

Sam won the French sanctioned heavy title in 1913 that had more gravitas than half the titles of the day.

Plus his colored title and competition better than JJOHNSON title and comp.

David Tua was poorly managed KTFO out of champs of his day, but only got one shot against the best of his era, Lewis.

[Tatabanya]

Yaqui Lopez, anyone?