Greatest fighters to never win a title

[billeau2]

Yeah, I think if Light Heavyweight existed when he out-grew Middleweight he would have gone down as one of the greatest champions of all-time. Again, I think his style and the quality of competition meant that the bigger he came in, the better he did. But it would clearly be a mismatch pairing him against a roided out body builder like Tua. But I cannot believe that Tua would beat Langford IF they were contemporaries.



Why do you like using words outside your vocabulary range?

You don't know what a word means and it's my fault? And why do you used Concepts in boxing that are beyond your ken to understand?

[JAB5239]

You don't know what a word means and it's my fault? And why do you used Concepts in boxing that are beyond your ken to understand?

You're talking to a guy who didn't know the light heavyweight division existed when Langford outgrew middleweight. I guess Bob Fitzsimmons really wasn't a 3 division champion after all.....at least according to Rusty's logic.

[Willie Pep 229]

The Light Heavyweight Title

Fitzsimmons' history with the title consists of two fights; claiming the title from George Gardner and losing it to Phily Jack O'Brien.

It seems to have a spotted history of existence until Carpentier.

It comes into existence as a claimed title from 1903-1905 and then disappears for eight years. (1905-1913)

It looks as though the NYSAC tried to recreate it in 1913 with a Bob Moha vs. Cyclone Johnny Thompson fight. Moha then loses it to Jack Dillion, who then claims it as a World Title again.

Battling Levinsky "claimed" the title for four years (1916-1920) but only defended it in "no decision" fights (NWS) one of which, against Billy Miske, had him and Miske weighting in at 188.

From there it seems to co-exist with an American Light Heavyweight Title for a a short while.

Guess you can argue the title existed in some people's mind but doesn't seem to get codified until it gains either the NYSAC sanction (1913) or a super star belt holder in Carpentier (1920).

Boxrec denotes Fitzsimmons as a "Light Heavyweight Champion." -- In the end it's likely that Boxrec will get to make the final call. Anything that appears on Wikipedia is likely sourced back to Boxrec anyway.

The first eight title holders/claimants:

1903-04-22 (US) Jack Root World

1903-07-04 (Ireland) George Gardner World

1903-11-25 (UK) Bob Fitzsimmons World

1905-12-20 (US) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien World

1913-02-17 (US) Bob Moha NYSAC

1914-04-14 (US) Jack Dillon World

1916-10-24 (US) Battling Levinsky World

1920-10-12 (France) Georges Carpentier World

[Anthony342]

The Light Heavyweight Title

Fitzsimmons' history with the title consists of two fights; claiming the title from George Gardner and losing it to Phily Jack O'Brien.

It seems to have a spotted history of existence until Carpentier.

It comes into existence as a claimed title from 1903-1905 and then disappears for eight years. (1905-1913)

It looks as though the NYSAC tried to recreate it in 1913 with a Bob Moha vs. Cyclone Johnny Thompson fight. Moha then loses it to Jack Dillion, who then claims it as a World Title again.

Battling Levinsky "claimed" the title for four years (1916-1920) but only defended it in "no decision" fights (NWS) one of which, against Billy Miske, had him and Miske weighting in at 188.

From there it seems to co-exist with an American Light Heavyweight Title for a a short while.

Guess you can argue the title existed in some people's mind but doesn't seem to get codified until it gains either the NYSAC sanction (1913) or a super star belt holder in Carpentier (1920).

Boxrec denotes Fitzsimmons as a "Light Heavyweight Champion." -- In the end it's likely that Boxrec will get to make the final call. Anything that appears on Wikipedia is likely sourced back to Boxrec anyway.

The first eight title holders/claimants:

1903-04-22 (US) Jack Root World

1903-07-04 (Ireland) George Gardner World

1903-11-25 (UK) Bob Fitzsimmons World

1905-12-20 (US) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien World

1913-02-17 (US) Bob Moha NYSAC

1914-04-14 (US) Jack Dillon World

1916-10-24 (US) Battling Levinsky World

1920-10-12 (France) Georges Carpentier World

Now this is what I like and why I come here. To learn some f****n history. And a thank you, sir.

[billeau2]

You're talking to a guy who didn't know the light heavyweight division existed when Langford outgrew middleweight. I guess Bob Fitzsimmons really wasn't a 3 division champion after all.....at least according to Rusty's logic.

"Ingo (Ingomer Johhanson) had one of the most powerful punches in history."

"Coetze made Liston look like a clown."

"Ray Robinson was overrated, and the heat has nothing to do with his loss to Maxim."

"Golota has one of the best jabs in history."

[billeau2]

The Light Heavyweight Title

Fitzsimmons' history with the title consists of two fights; claiming the title from George Gardner and losing it to Phily Jack O'Brien.

It seems to have a spotted history of existence until Carpentier.

It comes into existence as a claimed title from 1903-1905 and then disappears for eight years. (1905-1913)

It looks as though the NYSAC tried to recreate it in 1913 with a Bob Moha vs. Cyclone Johnny Thompson fight. Moha then loses it to Jack Dillion, who then claims it as a World Title again.

Battling Levinsky "claimed" the title for four years (1916-1920) but only defended it in "no decision" fights (NWS) one of which, against Billy Miske, had him and Miske weighting in at 188.

From there it seems to co-exist with an American Light Heavyweight Title for a a short while.

Guess you can argue the title existed in some people's mind but doesn't seem to get codified until it gains either the NYSAC sanction (1913) or a super star belt holder in Carpentier (1920).

Boxrec denotes Fitzsimmons as a "Light Heavyweight Champion." -- In the end it's likely that Boxrec will get to make the final call. Anything that appears on Wikipedia is likely sourced back to Boxrec anyway.

The first eight title holders/claimants:

1903-04-22 (US) Jack Root World

1903-07-04 (Ireland) George Gardner World

1903-11-25 (UK) Bob Fitzsimmons World

1905-12-20 (US) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien World

1913-02-17 (US) Bob Moha NYSAC

1914-04-14 (US) Jack Dillon World

1916-10-24 (US) Battling Levinsky World

1920-10-12 (France) Georges Carpentier World

Great information!

[JAB5239]

The Light Heavyweight Title

Fitzsimmons' history with the title consists of two fights; claiming the title from George Gardner and losing it to Phily Jack O'Brien.

It seems to have a spotted history of existence until Carpentier.

It comes into existence as a claimed title from 1903-1905 and then disappears for eight years. (1905-1913)

It looks as though the NYSAC tried to recreate it in 1913 with a Bob Moha vs. Cyclone Johnny Thompson fight. Moha then loses it to Jack Dillion, who then claims it as a World Title again.

Battling Levinsky "claimed" the title for four years (1916-1920) but only defended it in "no decision" fights (NWS) one of which, against Billy Miske, had him and Miske weighting in at 188.

From there it seems to co-exist with an American Light Heavyweight Title for a a short while.

Guess you can argue the title existed in some people's mind but doesn't seem to get codified until it gains either the NYSAC sanction (1913) or a super star belt holder in Carpentier (1920).

Boxrec denotes Fitzsimmons as a "Light Heavyweight Champion." -- In the end it's likely that Boxrec will get to make the final call. Anything that appears on Wikipedia is likely sourced back to Boxrec anyway.

The first eight title holders/claimants:

1903-04-22 (US) Jack Root World

1903-07-04 (Ireland) George Gardner World

1903-11-25 (UK) Bob Fitzsimmons World

1905-12-20 (US) Philadelphia Jack O'Brien World

1913-02-17 (US) Bob Moha NYSAC

1914-04-14 (US) Jack Dillon World

1916-10-24 (US) Battling Levinsky World

1920-10-12 (France) Georges Carpentier World

I believe Langford could have fought and would have been deserving of a light heavyweight shot anytime between 1905 and 1915. I think he could have easy made weight during that period. I do appreciate the education though. I didn't realize there was a lapse in the title for those years you mentioned.

[JAB5239]

"ingo (ingomer johhanson) had one of the most powerful punches in history."

"coetze made liston look like a clown."

"ray robinson was overrated, and the heat has nothing to do with his loss to maxim."

"golota has one of the best jabs in history."

.....🤣.....