Would Marciano be too small for today's heavyweight division ?

[JAB5239]

- - Vit who beat Wlad into Ring rankings went to America to drum up fights with Tyson, Big Dummy, Field, and Lewie late 90s and they didn't want to hear him.

Given there was a virtual boycott of American Broadcasters and major promoters of the Ks for most all of their careers, they had to wait for the rest to come to them, but given the international explosion of heavies then, many were better than the American name fighters including lefty AmericanThompson coming into his own then.

Nobody wanted to see Vit/Byrd rematch but U, nor did they want to see a Wlad rematch until Byrd ditched King.

Bottom line: Vit record better than Lewie...read it and weep for thee softly.

It's like U was born yesterday again today still vacant of what was explained yesterday.

Actually his record isn't better than Lennox, and his resume isn't even close. Go play in the corner now, the adults are talking.

[QueensburyRules]

Actually his record isn't better than Lennox, and his resume isn't even close. Go play in the corner now, the adults are talking.

- - You'd never last 10 sec as my Pop.

Give it up or be like monkey man wif his moment wif U wif Byrd. Maybe a marriage made in heaven U and monkey.

[QueensburyRules]

- - BTW, McCline earned $100K for his Byrd title fight as an example of Byrd's worth as champion.

[JAB5239]

- - BTW, McCline earned $100K for his Byrd title fight as an example of Byrd's worth as champion.

Was worth enough to come to Geany on short notice. But not worth enough to rematch for the title Vits lost to him?

[Dr. Z]

Rotater cuff surgery typically requires 6 to 8 weeks recovery time. The Byrd ad fight was 6 months after the fight, the Hoffman fight 7 months. Do you not think he had recovered in Time to start negotiating had he wanted to? The fight still would have been 5 to 6 months off. And no I dont believe for a minute that either honor his brother didn't know exactly what the other was doing and when. I think Vits wins the rematch, but it would still be a hard fight. Byrds style stymied him and he was sucking wi g by the 7th round.

I think Vitsly is a great man. But I do think he is overrated and he is forgiven things because his brother took care of most of the legwork. I also think Vits is a tough fight for anyone in history. I don't hate the man at all, I just get perturbed that he is given accolades for fighting a weak resume when he could have done so much more, and for not trying to get that Byrd rematch.

I also respect your posts and your ability to share knowledge and opinions that are opposite my own without this turning into a flame war.

Oh no they don't. Have you ever known someone who tore them? They take at least six months to heal, and when you are cleared your are not at full strength. Ask a doctor or physical trainer. I am talking about a full tear like Vitali had. No I do not think he recovered in time for real talks for contracts until at least six months.

There is a lot to lean about this fighter? Did you know he is 8-2 vs ranked ring magazine opponents, was always in the lead after 3 rounds in his 47 pro fights after 3 rounds on all three judges card ** Home among all heavyweights ** , was never floored by a punch, ( owner of an all time chin, only one champion can claim this ) featured all but one opponents with winning record, was never floored by a punch, and owns a rare boxing come back after age 37 knocking out several ring magazine ranked opponents and held his titles until he retried at age 41! Is there a man out there that accomplished all of the above? Or one heavyweight who has two feats such as this?? Name him. Go on. I give you all of history. I have researched this and asked the question to historians. The can not find one man who is all of this, let can match two of the above feats. In heavyweight history. Think about it you will see I'm right. I add your verification to the equation which includes known historians. In fact I leave it open to the board.

He isn't overrated, rather under rated. Maybe you did not think of all of the above and fact that he took for prime years away form the ring and came back to win at tile with no warm up fights at age 37. Has anyone been retired / in-active for so long ( 4 years ) and come back to win a belt in boxing history? Only one man. George Foreman, That's it.

His resume isn't as good as Ali's but would be hard pressed to find more heavyweights in history who had more ring magazine wins, okay? Only a few men do, and many of those aren't what we consider real heavyweights today as the were all over 200 pounds!

All of us can re-access. My opinion has changed over the years as I've leaned more. When I have time I'll start a new thread. The title could be Vitali's ring accomplishments vs history.


By the way yes Marciano along with several great heavyweights are too small today. They just are. Decades have passed and the game has changed.

- Dr. Z.

[Ivich]

Rotater cuff surgery typically requires 6 to 8 weeks recovery time. The Byrd ad fight was 6 months after the fight, the Hoffman fight 7 months. Do you not think he had recovered in Time to start negotiating had he wanted to? The fight still would have been 5 to 6 months off. And no I dont believe for a minute that either honor his brother didn't know exactly what the other was doing and when. I think Vits wins the rematch, but it would still be a hard fight. Byrds style stymied him and he was sucking wi g by the 7th round.

I think Vitsly is a great man. But I do think he is overrated and he is forgiven things because his brother took care of most of the legwork. I also think Vits is a tough fight for anyone in history. I don't hate the man at all, I just get perturbed that he is given accolades for fighting a weak resume when he could have done so much more, and for not trying to get that Byrd rematch.

I also respect your posts and your ability to share knowledge and opinions that are opposite my own without this turning into a flame war.

• McGirt went into the Whitaker fight with an injured left shoulder. He said the injury probably happened in December during sparring for his fight with Genaro Leon on January 12. A week after the Whitaker fight, he had surgery to reattach a tendon that had been pulled away completely from the front of his rotator cuff.

• Potter down in 2nd round.
• Williams dislocated his right arm early in round three.
• At the end of the round it popped back in again, though in round six, it came out again, and Potter went in for attack, landing heavy shots.
• Williams lands a left uppercut to the chin, and Potter goes down. Potter gets up at the count of nine, and goes down two more times, with Williams fighting with only his left arm, and the ref stops the bout.
• Williams was deducted three points in the fight.
• Williams was behind on all scorecards, and his arm was taped up into a sling and taken to hospital after the bout.

• Ali was a 5 to 1 favorite.
• Ali was the Home ranked contender and Norton was ranked Special
• Ali suffered a broken jaw in the bout. There were no knockdowns.

• Abraham suffered a broken jaw in the fourth round.
• Miranda was deducted two points in the fifth round for an intentional headbutt.
• Miranda also was deducted two points in the seventh round and one point in the eleventh for low blows.

"European middleweight champion Kevin Finnegan gained a unanimous decision over the German middleweight titleholder, Frank Reiche. Early in the 7th round, a right hook by Reiche broke Finnegan's jaw, and Kevin fought the remainder of the fight back-pedaling. His left jab cut the German over the left eye, and by the 10th and final round, both men were quite bloody." -World Boxing, March 1975 issue.

Klitchko 2441/2lbs 6ft 7in Byrd 210lbs 6ft 2 1/2in

• Byrd, in training for a fight against , took the fight on ten days notice after the original challenger, , pulled out due to a hepatitis infection.
• Klitschko retired on his stool after the ninth round due to a shoulder injury. He was later diagnosed with a torn rotator cuff.
• After Klitschko quit, commentator said, "He doesn’t have the mentality of a champion. I can hardly believe what I just saw."

Vitali was well in front with 3 rounds to go ,could he have continued and probably taken a decision.? I think so.
Was he entitled to quit?
Yes ,only he knows how much the injury hurt him.
Should he have rematched Byrd ?
Yes.imo

Vitali Klitschko was a very good fighter,who would have been an extremely hard nights work for any champion.

He is also an admirable man who has earned worldwide respect for his stand against the illegal invasion of his country.

A fine human being in every respect of the word.

As an alphabet champion his resume was not a very deep one,he missed over 20 Ring ranked challengers when he himself was ranked.
A poster here,and a good one, a Ring contributor has exploded the myth about how many Ring ranked contenders he faced with cold confirmed facts.

Getting no acknowledgement of that, he decided to discontinue his participation in the thread, saying it was his own fault for allowing himself to be trolled.
I have been accused of several things on this forum that's par for the course we all have a go at each other why should I not get my share of stick?

Its been stated by one poster here,that I am a member of an organization that practices,devil worship and *****philia.

That organization is Free Masonry.The majority of American Presidents have been Free Masons.

Are they guilty of these heinous crimes?
Its been said I gave money to a ********* organization,namely the
African National Congress.
It's true,I did donate money to them.

The ANC was designated a ********* group by the South African Government,hardly surprising when their object was to abolish apartheid.

The US under Reagan followed suit ,this categorising was abruptly dropped
under the Bush administration."

Mandela taken off US terror list
Nelson Mandela was South Africa's first post-apartheid-era president US President George W Bush has signed a bill removing Nelson Mandela and South African leaders from the US terror watch list, officials say. Mr Mandela and ANC party members will now be able to visit the US without a waiver from the secretary of state. The African National Congress (ANC) was designated as a ********* organisation by South Africa's old apartheid regime. A US senator said the new legislation was a step towards removing the "shame of dishonouring this great leader". 'Rather embarrassing' Under the legislation, members of the ANC could travel to the United Nations headquarters in New York but not to Washington DC or other parts of the United States. US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had called the restrictions a "rather embarrassing matter that I still have to waive in my own counterpart, the foreign minister of South Africa, not to mention the great leader Nelson Mandela." South Africa's apartheid government banned the ANC in 1960, imprisoning or forcing into exile its leaders. Mr Mandela, who turns 90 this month, was released in 1990 after spending 27 years in prison. He then became the country's first post-apartheid-era president, before retiring after serving one term in office." I am proud to have given some financial support towards the ending of Apartheid. When President Mandela died I severed my connection to the ANC. I am proud to belong to an organization, Free Masonry that in the 25 years I have been a member of it has contributed many millions of pounds to charities as diverse as, handicapped children,the blind,orphanage's, multiple sclerosis,cancer research,childrens Xmas parties,pensioners relief, help for deaf people, and many,.many other worthy causes. Many years ago in response to a query about my intelligence level,I said I was classified at135 for intelligence quotient=IQ.that is not particularly high. My Wife's IQ is higher than mine ,and to be honest I set very little store by such numbers. I consider myself of average intelligence,and at my age,74 next month,mine has probably gone down appreciably, it's of no importance anyway,and only that one poster seems to have a fixation about it. I apologize for making this personal statement,but as I am getting vitriolic attacks from one particular poster on these issues,I feel that it was justified,and that I needed to put the facts out there. BACK TO BOXING Vitali Klitschko an excellent boxer who made a wonderful comeback from injury induced retirement. A somewhat shallow resume as an alphabet Champ,but a man who,along with his brother Wlad always conducted himself with dignity in the ring. As human beings, both men have my unqualified respect! I would only wish current clowns like Fury and Wilder had half the comportment they have displayed.
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[Dr. Z]

• McGirt went into the Whitaker fight with an injured left shoulder. He said the injury probably happened in December during sparring for his fight with Genaro Leon on January 12. A week after the Whitaker fight, he had surgery to reattach a tendon that had been pulled away completely from the front of his rotator cuff.

• Potter down in 2nd round.
• Williams dislocated his right arm early in round three.
• At the end of the round it popped back in again, though in round six, it came out again, and Potter went in for attack, landing heavy shots.
• Williams lands a left uppercut to the chin, and Potter goes down. Potter gets up at the count of nine, and goes down two more times, with Williams fighting with only his left arm, and the ref stops the bout.
• Williams was deducted three points in the fight.
• Williams was behind on all scorecards, and his arm was taped up into a sling and taken to hospital after the bout.

• Ali was a 5 to 1 favorite.
• Ali was the Home ranked contender and Norton was ranked Special
• Ali suffered a broken jaw in the bout. There were no knockdowns.

Dislocated shoulders can be " popped " back in to place, A torn rotator cuff a more serious injury in case you didn't know. It's harder to fight with. Pay no attention to Ivich, er Tony no I mean Mcvey or is it Tonto62 ( your banned names andI forget a few ) He is a confirmed hater and one who greats many accomplished white heavies with antipathy. He has also a free mason who admits giving money to charity to banned group on the USA terror list.

All of the above is true. So for the readers who were not aware of this, now you know. Who will you troll on next? Be careful he once claimed a 137 IQ!