Did SRL Have A Better Jab, Balance, and Defense Than SRR

[GrandpaBernard]

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[The Old LefHook]

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He had a different style, and employed those things differently. I think there is no particular evidence at all which suggests Leonard had better balance, especially. Leonard did a lot more "pretty" dancing a la Ali, whose style he admits emulating.

If you were able to show prime Robinson film of Leonard fighting, and instructed him to fight that way, I have no doubt at all that Robby could pull off all the moves of Leonard. What? He could not move his legs that way? Robinson could not throw a series of punches known as a shoeshine? Pfff! In fact there is film of him showboating and pulling off those moves. He did not make a habit of it. That was not his style. It was Leonard's.

[Ray Corso]

Leonard could box very well on offense & defense, Sugar Ray could do the same except he had power to get an opponent out of there.
As a Middleweight Sugar had to search and feel his way through an opponent
before trying to get them out because moving from 47 to 60 he encounter bigger & stronger men who could hurt him too.
Leonard fought the majority of his bouts at 47 and compared to Sugar's fight total he was a novice..............ha! Sugar fought 15 years as a Middleweight and what was remarkable to me was him fighting far beyond his prime "picking up the pennies" against very good opposition and was never stopped!
Leonard, Hearns and now were seeing Roy Jones far past his best getting hammered by opposition he would have sped by years ago.
Leonard was an incredible athlete, he trained for a week at my gym in New Haven (Pop Lovell Gym) for his 7th or 8th pro fight. The kid was sommersalting
and hand springing all over the place. He was a gymnast on the mats and could touch the basketball rim while standing flat footed under it.
Sugar abandoned a lot of his earlier methodology in his approach to winning and he accepted more punishment because of it. You need to remember that the "live crowd" at the arena was who saw him, not tv not ppv not closed circuit. The fighters in that era had to be spectacular and "put on a good show".
I take Sugar Ray over any fighter I've ever seen when talking about a complete fighter with boxing aptitude and the willingness to win at any cost.
I like Leonard and at his very best would give Sugar a good bout but he didn't have that mean streak that most of today's fans don't know about Sugar. Once he made the choice to get you out you either got stopped or beat up! Or lost a decs. After 300+ fights he was stopped ONCE by the Light Heavyweight Champion of the World from heat exhaustion while comfortably ahead on all score cards. Ready to become the welter, middle and light heavy king! Real weight classes not "junior" or "super" or intercontinental BS! hahaha.......ok enough of this, "Sugar Ray"... there's only one and his name is ROBINSON. Not Leonard, Mosley, Seales or any other poser!

nite kids Happy New Year to all............

Ray.

[rightsideup]

there have been many sugars the most heralded is the fighter most to be the best p4p out of all the copies mr leonard certainly does not disgrace the nickname as he fought many atgs himself and in his era most fighters did not fight as many bouts as walker smith jr. leonards balance was phenomenal and he jabbed and hooked of the jab with power. walker smith jr hit fullmer with one of the most famous hooks ever and knocked out the extremely strong randy turpin with a right moving backwards while bleeding bad enough that the fight would have been stopped soon afterwards.

happy new year everyone

[Elroy1]

Sugar Ray Leonard was an excellent boxer and great athlete.

Of course he had better balance, jab and defense than Robinson..

Have you guys actually SEEN Robinson's fights???

WIDE OPEN defense!!

Now I don't want to dump on old time greats I really don't, but the only thing timeless about Ray Robinson was his most extensive numerical record which when taken for win/loss and excluding the quality of opposition faced, happens to be the best boxing record of all time.

Of course it is impossible to have 200+ fights against quality opponents and what we are actually seeing deflates down quicker than the Hindenberg after it alighted.

Robinson was not Leonard's equal, you only have to watch a few short clips of each to see immediately.

Look who Leonard had to fight too, Hagler, Hearns, Duran and so on..

Who was Robinson's nemesis amongst the bums??

Jake bloody LaMotta for christ sake!! The Raging Bull movie of old really captured the quality of that fighter clearly... More like "Raging Punch-bag!"

[IronDanHamza]

I think Robinson was better in all those areas than Leonard.

Leonard was faster though and more athletic.

[Elroy1]

I think Robinson was better in all those areas than Leonard.

Leonard was faster though and more athletic.

Come on man defense??

Leonard had a solid defense and Robinson's wasn't even existent.

Please review some fights to see what I mean. Now who the hell can argue that?

[sonnyboyx2]

leonard could box very well on offense & defense, sugar ray could do the same except he had power to get an opponent out of there.
As a middleweight sugar had to search and feel his way through an opponent
before trying to get them out because moving from 47 to 60 he encounter bigger & stronger men who could hurt him too.
Leonard fought the majority of his bouts at 47 and compared to sugar's fight total he was a novice..............ha! Sugar fought 15 years as a middleweight and what was remarkable to me was him fighting far beyond his prime "picking up the pennies" against very good opposition and was never stopped!
Leonard, hearns and now were seeing roy jones far past his best getting hammered by opposition he would have sped by years ago.
Leonard was an incredible athlete, he trained for a week at my gym in new haven (pop lovell gym) for his 7th or 8th pro fight. The kid was sommersalting
and hand springing all over the place. He was a gymnast on the mats and could touch the basketball rim while standing flat footed under it.
Sugar abandoned a lot of his earlier methodology in his approach to winning and he accepted more punishment because of it. You need to remember that the "live crowd" at the arena was who saw him, not tv not ppv not closed circuit. The fighters in that era had to be spectacular and "put on a good show".
I take sugar ray over any fighter i've ever seen when talking about a complete fighter with boxing aptitude and the willingness to win at any cost.
I like leonard and at his very best would give sugar a good bout but he didn't have that mean streak that most of today's fans don't know about sugar. Once he made the choice to get you out you either got stopped or beat up! Or lost a decs. After 300+ fights he was stopped once by the light heavyweight champion of the world from heat exhaustion while comfortably ahead on all score cards. Ready to become the welter, middle and light heavy king! Real weight classes not "junior" or "super" or intercontinental bs! Hahaha.......ok enough of this, "sugar ray"... There's only one and his name is robinson. Not leonard, mosley, seales or any other poser!

Nite kids happy new year to all............

Ray.

lol..........

[billeau2]

Happy New year all. Robinson may have not been as fast as Leonard...thats a possability, but he was more explosive, seldom telegraphed, and had all the characteristics of a murderous puncher, going backwards and fowards. In this respect he was more accomplished than Leonard. Fast hands are great, quickness is the refinement of those qualities and where Robinson shows his elite status.

If a guy wins so much, then a great offense is, for him the best defense. Both Leonard and Robinson could counter punch and real counter punching abilty, where the opponent is caught before the blow completes is "defense with offensive benefitts" lol!

Arguments about the alleged lack of defense when considering a top fighter...even a guy like Armstrong, much less Robinson, should consider the necessity of defensive movement where offensive, or counter movements will suffice. To put this issue in a more global context regarding combat decisions....in traditional Japanese Swordsmanship defensive movements were often utilized during the process of Iuchu... or mutual suicide. Simply put, when a man was facing off against a better opponent and could not beat the man, he would defend himself and in the process virtually guarantee that, while he would not win, he could hope for mutual death of himself and the opponent.

Defensive strategy was, dare one say?, under these circumstances considered pathetic and counter productive. Many generations later Miyomoto Musashi implored all dueling swordsman to forgo all defensive efforts and sieze the advantage immediately by making the opponent react to you...Musashi had a record similar to Robinson's and included a spectcular underdog win against one of the finest swordsmen in history: Prince Koto...the story goes that Musashi boating to the island where he was to face the prince, and his handlers, refused to come ashore...baiting the prince to come out...you know sort of like the fighter who comes out late making the other guy wait and dry out.

At last the prince had enough and ran out with a Kia to meet his adversary...Musashi realizing that the prince's fine mobility and ability to move foward was compromised decided that sword be damned! Length was to be found in the boat oar which Musashi grabbed, ran towards the prince and bashed his head in, no defense needed...not even a sword was drawn by Musashi! the prince's blood turned the water red as wine, his handlers were left with a corpse and Musashi after stepping out of the boat, stepped back in and improved his record much as Tyson did with Spinx in a reasonably short period of time...again, no defensive movement needed.

[rightsideup]

Sugar Ray Leonard was an excellent boxer and great athlete.

Of course he had better balance, jab and defense than Robinson..

Have you guys actually SEEN Robinson's fights???

WIDE OPEN defense!!

Now I don't want to dump on old time greats I really don't, but the only thing timeless about Ray Robinson was his most extensive numerical record which when taken for win/loss and excluding the quality of opposition faced, happens to be the best boxing record of all time.

Of course it is impossible to have 200+ fights against quality opponents and what we are actually seeing deflates down quicker than the Hindenberg after it alighted.

Robinson was not Leonard's equal, you only have to watch a few short clips of each to see immediately.

Look who Leonard had to fight too, Hagler, Hearns, Duran and so on..

Who was Robinson's nemesis amongst the bums??

Jake bloody LaMotta for christ sake!! The Raging Bull movie of old really captured the quality of that fighter clearly... More like "Raging Punch-bag!"

have you not heard of such talented men as basilio , turpin, graziano, tommy bell, bobo olsen, gene fulmer,Sammy angot **** he was fighting world class fighters after people were calling for his retirement due to the fact that they felt he was hurting his legacy and more importantly not get adequately compensated yes leonard has a fantastic list of great opponents but the luster has not left there names yet check back in 25 yrs before you start degrading sugar ray Robinson opponents