Heavyweight Rankings

[joseph5620]

Interesting. So, considering Henry Armstrong lost three of his first four fights, I guess any chance of being on a pound-for-pound list is out of the question?
I thought you guys only considered wins and losses in their primes?

That's why I never get in these discussions.

You base a fighters' career on his entire career. Ups, downs, wins, losses, quality of opponents, titles won, titles lost, all of it.

Any losses Pacquiao had as a "child" have been obliterated by the success he's had against the biggest names in the sport. And if Manny keeps fighting until he's old, and he racks up 10 or 12 losses in the next decade, then all that counts, too.

When his career is over, you base his all-time ranking on the whole career. A career includes ALL of it ... not just a few years that nobody can agree on.

Henry Armstrong held three undisputed championships simultaneously when there were only 8 different divisions. That in itself puts him in an all time great discussion.

If you're referring to my comments about the Klitschko's what have they done that even remotely compares to that? And no, Pacquaio's accomplishments don't compare to that either. Of course he still has time to do bigger things but fighting JMM at this stage is not one of them.

[IronDanHamza]

Good question and it should apply to Pacquiao when people start putting him ahead of fighters like Duran or Whitaker.

You're too late

If you consider Pacquaio to not be in the Top 25 of all time the new era of fans look at you're a Zombie.

But, we've been here before and I know it will die down in due time so It's yet another one of those unbearble situation that you have to just make bearable.

[joseph5620]

You're too late

If you consider Pacquaio to not be in the Top 25 of all time the new era of fans look at you're a Zombie.
But, we've been here before and I know it will die down in due time so It's yet another one of those unbearble situation that you have to just make bearable.

Yeah I thought about that right after I posted it.

[SCtrojansbaby]

Good question and it should apply to Pacquiao when people start putting him ahead of fighters like Duran or Whitaker.

Pacquiao's resume is better than Whitaker's

[Emon723]

In an ATG heavyweight prime for prime head to head list I'd have Tyson in a top 10 spot, possibly top 5.

I don't think that anyone in history has an easy time in a 12 round fight with prime Tyson.

I've got a feeling that in decades to come we'll see Mike Tyson receive more recognition as a heavyweight ATG, he seems to have a fair few haters at the moment.

I agree that any other heavyweight greats wont have any picnic in a 12 round bout with a feared Mike Tyson, Iron Mike deserves at least a 10-12 ranking. putting him out of the top 15 is too much unfair.

[bojangles1987]

You're too late

If you consider Pacquaio to not be in the Top 25 of all time the new era of fans look at you're a Zombie.

But, we've been here before and I know it will die down in due time so It's yet another one of those unbearble situation that you have to just make bearable.

I don't know, that's only true with the insane Pacquiao fans I think, and with some people who just haven't seen the fighters that should be ranked ahead of Pac. I know there's a poll out there about where Pac should rank, probably like a dozen polls, I'm pretty sure Pac wasn't voted mostly to be top 25.

[IronDanHamza]

I don't know, that's only true with the insane Pacquiao fans I think, and with some people who just haven't seen the fighters that should be ranked ahead of Pac. I know there's a poll out there about where Pac should rank, probably like a dozen polls, I'm pretty sure Pac wasn't voted mostly to be top 25.

Yeah, that's true.

Pac fans like yourself understand where he should be ranked but there's just a mass of morons who make up the majorty of the Pacquaio fan base unfortunately.

And when main stream media like ESPN look at Teddy Atlas like he's crazy when he say's he wouldn't be in his Top 25 it just adds more fuel to the fire.

[IronDanHamza]

Pacquiao's resume is better than Whitaker's

I agree.

I have Pacquaio just a notch below Virgil Hill and Whitaker atleast 60 spaces below Hill.

[Dubblechin]

Good question and it should apply to Pacquiao when people start putting him ahead of fighters like Duran or Whitaker.

I'm just curious to hear your answer. Who did Roberto Duran beat (in your mind) to justify ranking him so high all-time?

Because I remember when Duran was a lightweight (and I don't get the impression some of you guys do). I watched him on television defending his lightweight title. I also remember the incredible hype surrounding him when he moved up to welterweight and beat Palomino and Leonard (which, to me, were bigger than ANY wins he had at lightweight). My dad led the charge. He loved Duran.

But I also remember watching in disgust when Duran quit after getting punched in the armpit against Pat Lawlor on the Tyson-Ruddock undercard.

So could you do me a favor and name all the great lightweights Duran beat that render his victories so far superior to Manny Pacquiao's wins over Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Marquez, etc.?

Because for the life of me I don't get this bull about Pacquiao being 60 spots below Virgil Hill garbage.

Play a video of Pacquiao's WORST moment in the ring, and play a video of Duran quitting against Pat Lawlor, and I can tell which is FAR more pathetic in my mind. Not to mention the No Mas fight, or the UNO MAS fight, which I paid to see and sat their cursing Duran all night for clearly just showing up to collect a paycheck.

I have no idea where Pacquiao will finish up all-time, because his career is not over yet, and I don't think he's beaten anyone as good as the Leonard that Duran beat, but Pacquiao has NEVER looked as bad as Duran did against Lawlor or in the second and third Leonard fights. And, in my mind, you have to consider ALL of it. The same human being who beat a lot of, frankly, nobody-that-great at Lightweight was the same person who quit against Leonard (twice) and quit against Lawlor and stunk out the joint plenty later on.

How anyone can look at Duran's entire career and rate him near the top spot is beyond me ... and I watched the guy fight for the better part of three decades. The only way you can do it is if you have selective amnesia ... and if you're going to do that for Duran and other old-timers, you should selectively forget the worst moments of someone like PAcquiao's career. Otherwise, you aren't judging them fairly.

If Duran had quit after beating Leonard with a record of 72-1, he'd have had solid claim. But you can't simply ignore all the terrible performances that followed over the next 20 YEARS! For 2/3 of his career, he looked like crap most of the time.

From 1942-1946, Jimmy Bivins might have been the best fighter on the planet. But that was only a fraction of his overall career, so you don't see him at the top of a lot of lists. I view Duran similarly.

[StarshipTrooper]

I'm just curious to hear your answer. Who did Roberto Duran beat (in your mind) to justify ranking him so high all-time?

Because I remember when Duran was a lightweight (and I don't get the impression some of you guys do). I watched him on television defending his lightweight title. I also remember the incredible hype surrounding him when he moved up to welterweight and beat Palomino and Leonard (which, to me, were bigger than ANY wins he had at lightweight). My dad led the charge. He loved Duran.

But I also remember watching in disgust when Duran quit after getting punched in the armpit against Pat Lawlor on the Tyson-Ruddock undercard.

So could you do me a favor and name all the great lightweights Duran beat that render his victories so far superior to Manny Pacquiao's wins over Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Miguel Cotto, Juan Manuel Marquez, etc.?

Because for the life of me I don't get this bull about Pacquiao being 60 spots below Virgil Hill garbage.

Play a video of Pacquiao's WORST moment in the ring, and play a video of Duran quitting against Pat Lawlor, and I can tell which is FAR more pathetic in my mind. Not to mention the No Mas fight, or the UNO MAS fight, which I paid to see and sat their cursing Duran all night for clearly just showing up to collect a paycheck.

I have no idea where Pacquiao will finish up all-time, because his career is not over yet, and I don't think he's beaten anyone as good as the Leonard that Duran beat, but Pacquiao has NEVER looked as bad as Duran did against Lawlor or in the second and third Leonard fights. And, in my mind, you have to consider ALL of it. The same human being who beat a lot of, frankly, nobody-special at Lightweight was the same person who quit against Leonard (twice) and quit against Lawlor and stunk out the joint plenty later on.

How anyone can look at Duran's entire career and rate him near the top spot is beyond me ... and I watched the guy fight for the better part of three decades. The only way you can do it is if you have selective amnesia ... and if you're going to do that for Duran and other old-timers, you should selectively forget the worst moments of someone like PAcquiao's career. Otherwise, you aren't judging them fairly.

For five years, during WWII, Jimmy Bivins might have been the best fighter on the planet. But that was only a fraction of his overall career, so you don't seem him at the top of a lot of lists.

And NOW we see the agenda. Apparently you've never heard of Esteban DeJesus who is considered an ATG Lightweight.

If Duran had quit after beating Leonard with a record of 72-1, he'd have had solid claim. But you can't simply ignore all the terrible performances that followed over the next 20 YEARS! For 2/3 of his career, he looked like crap most of the time.

Because no one (except YOU and assorted NSB ignoramuses with an agenda) hold fights that occurred when a fighter was washed-up against the fighter.

Poet